Bring back draft

ci

Come on, now. Your position leaves opinion open to only military servicemen and women. Or only to opinions that are reflective of them. Surely that's not right. And I'm just expressing on a board which might get read by a miniscule little crowd. Ought all political representatives be ex-servicemen? The president?

I did not say flag burning is good, just protected, as is right. Only a very few people ever burn flags in the USA and they are not particularly popular even with those in the cause they support. I don't have to like it to allow some jerk to do it.

If the draft were universal, no way they are that well educated.

Beth, you'd protest a draft of Americans? Or do you mean a draft for Canadians?

I asked my son about the draft -- he has just recently turned 18 and recently returned his selective service information, because, in case any of you didn't know, the army knows where to find all the 18 years old young men right now. They're ready for a draft. My son says he didn't want a draft, doesn't want to go and thinks other people should fight, if necessary, but not him. I'm not proud of that attitude but it is typical of most teens. The ones who go into the military are not motivated by patriotism but by what the military will do for them: bonuses, education, training.

BTW - Criss-cross amphetimines were widely available to military personnel well before any of the recent engagements. They were standard issue to pilots in the Korean War, in Viet Nam and were used in WWII on both sides of the conflict, that is by British pilots, German pilots, Japanese pilots and Americans. It is said that they were used in the Falkland War, as well.

I have another reason for being against a draft. I was profoundly against the action in Vietnam and feel the same about aggression against Iraq. How could I support drafting soldiers, many against their will, to fight in actions I do not consider moral or necessary?

<commenting way off topic> I had no inkling of a military use of amphetimines till this incident. Oddly, the US Dept of Transportation requires testing for these and other drugs for holders of CDL licenses.

That's just an observation I wanted to make.

Our, and your militaries are always subserviant to civilian authority, blatham. This would obviously be a meaningless concept without civilian input to the discussion. I doubt c.i. intended otherwise.

Pif,

No matter what motivates young people to enlist, they have served the nation honorably and well. When they leave the service they are generally responsible adults who will go on to make good lives for themselves. Some will hear the call to duty and will spend their lives in defense of the Constitution and our way of life. We should all be very proud of them, and support them though we may have grave doubts as to the wisdom of the politicians who decide how, and where and when those fine soldiers must go in harm's way.

Criticize the President and Congress if you wish. You may be right and they may be wrong. I opposed the Vietnam war publically as early as 1962. As a veteran I wasn't likely to be called back into service, but if the call had come, I would have gone. I lost some dear friends in that mess. As the years have passed, and I've learned more about what was going on the certainty of youth has faded. I maintain friendships today with men who did multiple tours there, and with others who went to jail rather than serve. I respect both opinions, because these were men of conscience and courage.

There was without any doubt many mistakes made during that awful time. Vietnam was just one campaign in the Cold War, and though we did not "win", neither did we lose. The military won its battles on the ground, and the Communists won the propaganda war. We spoke of winning the hearts and minds of the Viet People, and instead it was our hearts and minds that were captured. I think we have learned from those mistakes, and the military today is better for some of those lessons. Talking about those days is difficult for many of us in that generation. We were idealists and learned that idealism may be more deadly than a rifle bullet. Ah, youth.

This is an itchy question, and one I have not formulated an answer on.

I had to bribe son not to join the military. I am a hypocrite. All the men in my family have served in war or peace; whatever was going on at the time. Back to the American Revolution.

I proudly showed this to my children when they were small.

The recruiters had my son on speed dial for months, and after 911, I told them to stop calling him. He had other ideas, and was firming things up with an Air Force recruiter.

I dug up every bad press clipping I could about Vet illnesses, conspiracy theories... I would have died if he'd enlisted right before Iraq. He'd be completely green, and I was afraid he'd be sent out as a front line kid.

I've always believed every young man should do two years, to learn in case he was needed to defend our country. I still think it's a good idea, but mandatory, I can't say.

Immediately preceding conflagration. Not my son.

My sincere apologies to all who served.

I suffer the same indecision, Lash.

roger

I do understand that would not be ci's position. But it is a logical consequence of his argument.

Lash

That's terrifily honest of you concerning an issue where honesty can result in more than a little approbation. My hat is off to you on that one.

Thank you, blatham.

I am also of two minds -- I adore my son, am terrified that he might be drafted, though I think it might be more fair in a generalized way. However, I would be devastated if he were hurt, and despite being of age he seems particularly naive and young, certainly not ready to face these big questions.

At the same time I feel that, if (big IF) our country needs to be defended, neither he nor his sister should hold back.

I was a pacifist and marched against the VN war, embarassed that my father had been in the military. But now I am angry at the apparent violence we appear to be facing from factions throughout the world.

I do know that I am proud that my husband felt it was his duty to go to VN, right or wrong, and not hide behind a college deferement when other young men without the wherewithall were being sent to the front. Of course that was easier after the fact -- I didn't meet him until he returned home, so never had to worry. Can report that he grew up in the service and came home to get straight A's in school and know exactly what he wanted from life (peace and a happy home life). My best friend from years of being on the bay together went to VN, came home and committed suicide. It was horrible.

The simple solution to war is that old Catholic saying, If you want Peace, Work for Justice.

What father would like to recieve word that a son has fallen? We let our children go out into a dangerous world, and hold our breath that we shall die ourselves before them. We are proud of their courage, even when we think it reckless and tremble for their safety. So it was for our fathers, and their's before them.

You need no forgiveness that you can not give your self. You served, and that is enough. When the time comes, and we hope it never does, your sons will be courageous in defense of your family honor. Sleep well, my friend.

Pif,

Mothers have a special dispensation in these matters. Yeah, I know I'm expressing a sexual chauvinist statement there, but I'm an old fashioned sort of guy. On the other hand, oh how pleased I would be for my grand daughter to graduate from West Point.

Here's a case in point: If everybody felt that our government made mistakes when it came for us to go to war, and that was excuse enough for us not to serve in our military, then who? Do you really think our freedoms that we enjoy will be safe from harm? c.i.

CI

Really, as I said above, there are circumstances where I would bear arms and I can't imagine an activity I less want to ever engage in, other than having anything to do with the lower half of Margaret Thatcher's body.

But the full story of citizenship is wider than that.

Lash,

Its just been brought home to me that you are a mother, and nae a Da. See the following posting to Piffka, you Moms get a lot of leeway.

My wife leaves the room when my son and I talk business. Our daughter-in-law is a military wife, and still isn't used to it after almost 12 years. On the other hand, I no some women who are more willing to think about the reality of military matters more than their husbands.

Blythe and anyone else out there who haven't much use for the military,

The problem is that we can't wait until you are personally convinced of the rightness of a military policy before taking steps to defend our way of life. Should we reduce the military to a palace guard, and only begin to call up draftees when the danger is on our doorstep? The danger IS on our doorstep. There really are folks out there dedicated to destroying your personal way of life. There are many radical Muslims who believe that you are Satan and that nothing would so much please God as your death.

No one is asking you personally to give up your soft life to serve in the military. Others are willing to protect you, if necessary to die for you. What do you think is the least you owe those who stand between you and those who want nothing less than your destruction?

Think a little appreciation, a little respect is too much?

Asherman, thanks for the leeway. Right now, I'm willing to take all the wiggle room I can.

Though it seems almost unbelievable that anyone would think we should die, it does seem to be the case. When it comes to that, my Celtic blood begins to boil and the berserker mentality flows through my veins. I am fair and sure that I have done nothing to warrant such hatred and therefore have a very righteous anger against it. I wouldn't go down without a fight and I will expect my kids to be there, helping me.

So you see, I am not such a pacifist after all. Like all good Taoists, I will resist. Tai Chi is a good teacher.