Bring back draft

I think the draft SHOULD be reinstated. For the children of elected officials.

Maybe then they'll keep their bloody hands off my sons.

I'd be interested in seeing stats that prove that the Military is recruited from "lower- and more moderate-income people". There were quite a few rich brats in there whilst I was in.

Beyond that, Rangel tends to blow a lot of smoke (not that he's alone in that..) so I generally don't give him much attention.

I think this stands a good chance of happening. Probably won't be passed, though.

Rangel, that old liberal war horse, introducing this legislation will bring focus to the administration's warmongering.

When the flyover states sense their sons and daughters could wind up being killed in one of Bush's follies, he stands a lot less chance of being re-elected.

IMHO, of course.

fishin'
".
I have no idea if any stats are available in that regard. However, I believe he is on firm ground with that statement. The enlisted ranks of the services are made up primarily of children from those on the lower economic scale in our society.

I've no stats either, au, but I'd bet a cup of coffee that in the Vietnam era, draftees were made up of a disproportionate percentage of those unable to secure educational deferments - either from weak background, or lack of funds. Whether a new draft would eliminate this unfairness remains to be seen - if it should occur.

And what evidence is there of that? I spent 20 years in the Air Force in the enlisted ranks and just retired 4 years ago. There were very few that came from "poor" families (I'd guess less than 10%). Most of my contemporaries came from middle to upper-middle class families and there were quite a few that came from very well to do families. The Officer corps seemed to come from family that was a little better off by the enlisted ranks weren't any poor man's Army by any stretch.

FYI--

* 76% of the men sent to Vietnam were from lower middle/working class backgrounds.
* Three-fourths had family incomes above the poverty level; 50% were from middle income backgrounds.
* Some 23% of Vietnam vets had fathers with professional, managerial or technical occupations.
* 79% of the men who served in Vietnam had a high school education or better when they entered the military service. (63% of Korean War vets and only 45% of WWII vets had completed high school upon separation.)
* Deaths by region per 100,000 of pupulation: South -- 31%, West -- 29.9%; Midwest -- 28.4%; Northeast -- 23.5%.

Source: http://www.no-quarter.org/html/jake.html

blacksmithn
Thanks for the stats. However they are all representative of periods when the draft was still in effect. I doubt that they reflect the present make up of the services.
roger
Educational deferments or not everyone should be made to serve eventually.
The only deferments should be medical.

Rangel is advocating something I've believed in for many years.

The disconnect between the upper classes and the fighting classes is obvious to any who will let himself see it, (sorry fishin') although it may be less pronounced in the Air force than in the other branches.

If the draft is brought back it would need to be without the deferrments by which numerous of our current political leaders
avoided service.

If we love our country what's wrong with asking ALL to be available to serve?

I think Rangel is on the right track. Having been of draft age during the Viet Nam war (and was 4-F--legitimately), I know that there's nothing like the chance of being chosen to serve to clarify one's thinking about how good an idea a war is...

And if the draft were brought back it would also have to include the 30% or so of the current population that doesn't graduate from high school annually - people primarily from the poorest families in this country who are excluded from military service at this point in time by the all-volunteer requirement of a high school diploma (less than 1% of the military is without a high-school diploma at this point in time..).

I'll go along with the last statement there by the proto-Duc de Montesquiou (D'artagnan, for the historically-challenged). I have one problem with re-instating the draft, however, and that is what we knew in my day as Public Law 186. If you never join, and are never conscripted, you don't owe the country a single minute of your time. I would be in favor of the re-activation of the Selective Service System only if there were a serious overhaul of the selection criteria, and provision made to prevent the well-connected from using the Guard or Reserves as a means of escaping the responsibility of going in harm's way. I was draft eligible, my number was 89 in Nixon's lottery. However, i enlisted. Had i sought to avoid service by joining the Guard or the Reserves, i would not have had a prayer in hell of getting in, it was reserved in those days for the sons of the influential. In the last war, Reservists and Guardsmen/women were called and sent to the war zone. So long as everyone has to serve in some manner, and so long as the Reserves and the Guard do not sit it out at home, i've no objection to a reinstatement of the draft. And i will acknowledge that, having done my service, i wouldn't have to go, which means it will cost me nothing to say as much.

So be it.

At least everybody would be at risk.

And, any of those without a high school education that could not fulfill military duties could be released.

This is something that I am sure very few of you if any are aware of. In olden times {1948} there was a law passed that allowed for the enlistment into the enlisted reserve which called for one year on active duty and five years of active reserve. Consisting of monthly meeting and 2 weeks of camp. In addition it was only open to those between 18 and 19 years old.
In an effort to get the obligation behind me and get on with my life I enlisted. Spent a year in an armored division and learned all there was about the operations of a tank and just about every other army vehicle and firearm.
At the end of the year I went into the active reserve. As luck would have the Korean war started within the year and a little over a month later I was back on active duty. {fully trained}
I think that it should be reinstated but as a draft option.
I have often wondered how much training someone who has never been on active duty called up as a member of a reserve unit has had? How capable is he/she to defend themselves and the others around them?

I agree with you Jjorge, even though I have two who are of age (if you count my daughter). Mr. PFK also enlisted for Viet Nam, knowing his number could be called... Luckily I didn't know him until just after he came home. A tragic and bewildering time, similar to today.

(as an aside - I thought the worst thing about Clinton was his lack of military service, that is, until he parsed on oath.)

Parsed ? ! ? ! ?

heeheeheeheeheehee . . .

Damn his eyes, that parsey-footing, lily-livered, son of a seacook ! ! !

What an elegant turn of phrase you have.

The only guideline I can offer on preparedness and training is the example of the Gulf War, au. I was highly impressed; how about you?

...and would the draft include women?


I think if there was a draft, it should - all things supposedly being equal and all. Can't just want the good of equality and refuse to take the bad.