steissd
You can not compare Israeli reserve outfits with national guard units in the states.
In Israel reserve servicemen are considered the most important part of the IDF. They were the main participants of the 1967 and 1973 campaigns. Do not the U.S. reserve forces have the same importance?
All of our military are important to the peace and security of our great nation (THE USA).
steissd, All active servicemen/women serve some reserve time after they are discharged. c.i.
The same happens in my country. I am supposed to be drafted every year for at least 33 days until I am 45.
I hope you stay in good physical shape.
In WWII in the US, men were being drafted up to the age of 55 years.
New Haven
Quote:
In WWII in the US, men were being drafted up to the age of 55 years.
Wrong! I don't remember the exact age but it was well below 55. In addition the service found that the older men were actually not fit for service and allowed all those over I believe 37 to seperate from the service if they wanted to.
au:
Were you 12 years old at that time?
One other comment:
There are plenty of males and females in the military who are 55 years old and even older. There are many 55 year old people in the USA who are very physically fit.
steissd
People in the national guard need not have ever been in the service and from what i understand a good many have not . Their only military training is two weeks of camp a year. As for the reserves I do not know if active service is a prerequisite or not. My experience in the reserves although many years ago was from a military point of view a waste of time. However,I was young and had only been out of the service for less than a year when I was recalled for the Korean war.
New Haven
Yes when the war started I was 12 years old. Although my memory is starting to dim a little [senior moments] there are still things I remember since they happened to people I knew and family members.
Judt want to say that on this very day, 190 years ago, draft was introduced to to Prussia as the first German country.
This was part of the general reforms by vom Stein, von Hardenberg, von Humboldt und Gneisenau.
The military reforms were conducted by General Gerhardt von Scharnhorst, who (abandoned the privileges accorded to nobility within the officer corps as well).
Decision to introduce draft must correspond to the current security situation. For example, in mid-'30s there was no military draft in the USSR, it was reinstituted in October 1940 due to potential danger of Hitler's attack. If the security situation in the USA requires draft, it will be immediately reinstituted. Right now there is no indications to changes of this kind. The planned war against Iraq may be conducted with the existing number of personnel (including partially drafted reservists).
Americans first instituted a draft during the Civil War. The ranks had to be continually replenished because of the extremely high casualty rates. Some units suffered as high as 80% losses in a single campaign. Disease rather than bullets was the leading cause of loss, and desertion/AOL rates were also high. Both Union and confederate Forces resorted to the draft.
When the Union instituted the draft, massive civil riots broke out in various places in the North. The most serious rioting was in New York where predominately Irishmen burned and lynched blacks. I believe the New York riot may have been the foundation for the recent film "Gangs of New YorK", but I know little about the film and can't be sure. In the South even Blacks were encouraged to serve in the combat arms when the supply of whites began to diminish.
After the Civil War, the United States abandoned the draft and reduced the military to almost nothing. It was a volunteer army that won the West. During the period between the Civil War and WWI, all Negro regiments made up a substantial part of the U.S. Army, and they served with distinction. During those years the principle U.S. military campaigns were the Indian Wars, The Spanish American War (1898), philippine insurrection, and chased Pancho Villa around Mexico. The "Volunteer System" was shown to be very inadequate in many cases, though the smallness of our forces was usually blamed.
American entrance into WWI was late, and the ranks were swollen by young men rushing to glory. However, trench warfare and the machine gun had already demonstrated that the approx. 200,000 Americans would be insufficient. The first draft called for a total of around 500,000 men, but Pershing almost immediately upped that number to over 1,210,000. American unpreparedness was soon evident. Logistically there wasn't enough to supply the expanded military. Draftees were housed in tents because there weren't sufficient training camps with facilities large enough. Training was often done with broomsticks and men carrying signs designating them as "tanks". No thought-out training doctrine existed, so the cadre invented one. The officer corps was too small and so just about any upper class, college-educated young man could get a commission. It was a mess. The arrival of the Americans was greeted with enthusiasm and, though some have argued the tide of battle had already shifted toward an Allied victory, the Americans did place an important part in the war. After the war, the American military shrank back to little more than a palace guard.
The mobilization of the American Arms was slightly in WWII than in WWI, but it was still far from adequate during the first six months of the war. America did have a secret weapon. It had George C. Marshall as Chief of Staff. General Marshall had in his mind the design for mobilization, the skill to implement his plans, and the trust of FDR. Marshall's little black book became the springboard to higher command for men who had spent a decades as Captains. Marshall had prepared training facilities and begun a massive logistical buildup in the years prior to Pearl. Even with the Marshall at the helm, it took far too long to bring the full force of American arms up to that needed for victory against the Axis powers.
WWII segued into the Cold War before the United States could fully disarm itself. The Atomic Age caused policy makers a lot of anguish. One one side there were those who said that with the Atomic Bomb, we need nothing but a few long-range bombers. Wiser heads knew better, while the debate went on the draft continued. When the Soviet Union demonstrated that they also possessed atomic weaponry, the Cold War was on with a vengence, and the draft became a permanent fixture in America. The DPRK, with the blessings of Uncle Joe and the material support of the PRC invaded and murdered tens of thousands of South Koreans. The small and poorly equipped American occupation forces were pushed down to the pusan Perimeter and it looked like a big, big win for Communism. Suddenly a large military that was ready to fight at an instant's notice was evident. The Communists were beaten back to the Yallu River and China entered the war with the PLA, and army of many millions. The Korean War went into an armistice that has continued to this day.
The next challenge was when the Communists of North Vietnam, again with the blessings and support of Stalin and Mao, tried to completely dominate Vietnam. The French were defeated, and no one was left to deter the Communist advance but the United States. The United States could not have defended Vietnam as long as it did without the draft. However, it was Vietnam that persuaded the American People to abandon the draft. The United States was forced to return to the use of an all volunteer military. The new volunteer army would be different than those most common in American history. The new military would be large, well equipped, well trained and possessing the finest weapons available. At first it was hard going, but over time we have developed the most powerful, effective fighting force in the history of the world.
A return to the draft would seriously degrade the fighting capablilty of American Arms. However, I believe that some form of military training for all American youth should be instituted.
Asherman said
Quote:However, I believe that some form of military training for all American youth should be instituted.
And by what means other than a draft could that be accomplished. You will note some where in this posting I said that they should be drafted and spend one year on active duty, for training purposes, and five years on active reserve. At that point a discharge should be issued.
I haven't got a plan for introducing Americans to military fundamentals. Steissd suggested that basic military training be within the curriculum in high schools and college. Something along that line might work. Improving the physical condition of our youth, and an introducing them to military style discipline might do many a world of good. Learning basic tactics and strategy will be useful in many lines of endeavor. Military history should be emphasized more than it has been over the last twenty years or so. Firearms training would probably appeal to many.
The fundamental qualifications for citizenship is usually for a person to be born, or naturalized, into a community, to pay taxes and follow the groups laws, and to serve in the groups military forces. Familiarization with military subjects is an important part of preparing citizens for governing themselves. People unfamiliar with war, may find it difficult to make rational policy choices. The media doesn't prepare people to know how hard and terrible war is. On the other hand, naivete founded upon a lack of knowledge makes all war seem an evil to be avoided at any cost. War is sometimes necessary. Death and destruction can be far worse if the danger and risk of war is delayed. An informed public whose understanding of war and the military arts is better able to judge which policies should be adopted.
I don't think we should become a militaristic society, but it seems to me that the realities of war and the military has fallen far below what is necessary if we are to remain strong over the long haul.
Asherman, I don't think there is any fear that our military will be second to anybody any time soon. We spend more than the top seven industrialized countries in the world today, and our military budget exceeds the GDP of most countries in the world. The high tech weaponry should reduce the manpower needs of our military, not increase it. c.i.
Cicero,
Quite correct. We are strong, and should remain strong. Our technological advantage does make our military efficient. It's effectiveness is sometimes constrained by a lack of will to use it. Strength is the sine qua non of effective negotiations.
I suppose we agree then that a draft today would be counter-indicated.
Asherman
As Tonto would say. Who is we Keem O Sabe.
