(the) English tense

Forums: English, Esl, Grammar, May Permission 3
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-I know sometimes memorizing things is important, but when it comes to/when we are talking about (the) English tense(s), understanding the meaning is very important.

Is THE and the S optinal?

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[+3] - Setanta - 05/27/2014[i]I know sometimes memorizing things is important, but when we are talking about English tenses, understanding the meaning is very important.[/i] "The" is not optional, it's wrong....

@WBYeats,

I know sometimes memorizing things is important, but when we are talking about English tenses, understanding the meaning is very important.

"The" is not optional, it's wrong. No, the "s" is not optional, you must use the plural of "tense" in order for the statement to be coherent.

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@Setanta,

Thank you~

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If you agree that THE is optional:

-(The) Master treated me very well when I was his servant.

then is this also optional by the analogy above?:

-As (the) professor said, we are required.../(the) professor told us...

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@WBYeats,

…talking about the tenses in English
Here 'English' refers to the English language.

But 'the English tenses' sounds like you are making a contrast:

…talking about the English tenses, as opposed to those of German and the Nordic languages,…

The Master treated me very well when I was his servant.

-As the professor said, we are required...
The professor told us…

You are referring specifically to the tenses (as opposed to any other aspect of English grammar); to your Master; and a specific professor

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@Bazza6,

Thank you~ But here comes a more complicated problem:

Occasionally we hear native English speakers say Master/Professor etc, without THE; for me as a non-native, the use of THE would convey a sense of aloofness, meaning the person you are referring to is not so familiar to you. But as a servant, the master is already like a family member to you, like saying mother told me..., not THE mother told me...; according to this, and to show familiarity, can we simply say 'as professor says', no THE, treating it like a nickname, which entails lack of THE?

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-He was the most dangerous man in London, at least in (the) London in the 19th c.

Is THE optional?

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@WBYeats,

Not optional, as in equal choice, but it could be possible given the right context and wording.

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you could say "in the London of the 19th century" (which cites a specific London so you use the definite article) or you could say "in London in the 19th century", but "in the London in the 19th century" sounds weird,

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@MontereyJack,

Absolutely, MJ.

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Quote:

Occasionally we hear native English speakers say Master/Professor etc, without THE; for me as a non-native, the use of THE would convey a sense of aloofness, meaning the person you are referring to is not so familiar to you. But as a servant, the master is already like a family member to you, like saying mother told me..., not THE mother told me...; according to this, and to show familiarity, can we simply say 'as professor says', no THE, treating it like a nickname, which entails lack of THE?

If you accompany a title with a specific name, it would be strange to have a "the" in it in most cases. "The professor told me...", versus "Professor Jones told me", NOT "the professor Jones told me". The title functions much like "mister" would. You'd never say "the Mister Jones told me....". Well, I'm sure JTT will come up with some convoluted way you would say "THE Mister Jones", but it would be strained.

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@MontereyJack,

Quote:

. You'd never say "the Mister Jones told me....". Well, I'm sure JTT will come up with some convoluted way you would say "THE Mister Jones", but it would be strained.

Do you mean the Mister Jones in shipping told you (or me)?

Not at all strained or convoluted, MJ.

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@JTT,

Only likely if you have bunches of Mister Jones scattered through the company.

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@MontereyJack,

Correct. Or even two Mr (whatever).

Under certain conditions it is possible, Jack.

Not at all strained or convoluted, is it?

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@JTT,

I'd be more likely to say , "Fred in Shipping told me...." (His name is actually Ralph. His predecessor in Shipping was named
Fred, and the first day he was hired, someone mistakenly called him "Fred" and for some reason it stuck, and that's what everybody has called him ever since).

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@MontereyJack,

Jack, we aren't talking about what is more likely. We have been discussing what is possible. That is what ESLs need and want to know.

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@WBYeats,

THE doesn't work here because the meaning, the context points to a general meaning, WB. If the context was specific, then THE would be possible, possibly even compulsory.

CONTEXT CONTEXT CONTEXT!!!!

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@JTT,

JTT says:

Quote:

Thu 26 Jun, 2014 09:27 am @MontereyJack,

Jack, we aren't talking about what is more likely. We have been discussing what is possible. That is what ESLs need and want to know.

Really? Or do they want to know what it is they should say in the contexts they're likely to encounter? And I think even you would sadmit that your sentence only works in a relatively specialized set of circumstances, rarely encountered, whereas Yeats was asking a much more general question,a as I read him, i.e. do English speakers usually use a form like "the Professor Jones..." and the answer is, no, they don't.

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@MontereyJack,

When someone asks about these potentials, it is imperative that they kno the potentials. What good purpose could/can there be to hide it from them? We don't hide these things from native speaking children.

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@MontereyJack,

Thank you~ um...but my question was not that; it was, when we refer to someone familiar, we say mother, father etc, no THE; if a professor is close friends with us, can we just say

-As professor says, we need to...

just as we can use MASTER without THE, treating the master as a family member like

eg Father says he is going to take us to the zoo this weekend.

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(the) English tense

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