5
   

Does PIN refer to Personal Identification Number?

 
 
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 12:34 am

Context:

United Kingdom

Imposters pose as undercover police officers and demand cash for bogus minor offenses, including littering or not having ID documents.

At ATMs in busy areas, thieves use distraction techniques. They may wait until a PIN has been entered, then point to money on the ground or hand out a free newspaper. A colleague will quickly withdraw cash when the ATM user is distracted.
 
View best answer, chosen by oristarA
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 01:12 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
Does PIN refer to Personal Identification Number?
YES.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 07:21 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:
Does PIN refer to Personal Identification Number?
YES.


Thanks.
But it is still not clear for me. You enter PIN, the ATM still needs you to enter password, just at this point the ATM begins to send money out.
If the ATM begins to puke money out once you enter PIN, well, a policeman can know your PIN so he can get your money from the ATM... because a policeman can be a bad guy, as history has told us.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 07:29 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
But it is still not clear for me. You enter PIN, the ATM still needs you to enter password, just at this point the ATM begins to send money out.


Not in Britain, you enter your PIN, there are no additional passwords needed, just a 4 digit PIN. The PIN is the password, (as far as ATMs go anyway, online banking requires additional passwords.)
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 08:52 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

oristarA wrote:
But it is still not clear for me. You enter PIN, the ATM still needs you to enter password, just at this point the ATM begins to send money out.


Not in Britain, you enter your PIN, there are no additional passwords needed, just a 4 digit PIN. The PIN is the password, (as far as ATMs go anyway, online banking requires additional passwords.)


The PIN is the password?
Isn't Personal Identification Number (PIN) recorded in police stations, which makes its "password" public (to policemen)?
maxdancona
  Selected Answer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 08:53 am
@oristarA,
No.

At least in the US, no one but you has your PIN. It is your password. You might be confusing it with your SSN (a number the government assigns you).
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 09:06 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Isn't Personal Identification Number (PIN) recorded in police stations,
which makes its "password" public (to policemen)?
Yes, it certainly is NOT recorded in any police station.
That is none of the police's business.

Not even in a joke, wud the police ask u that.





David
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 09:20 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
Not even in a joke, wud the police ask u that.


That isn't true. The police can, and sometimes will, ask for a PIN in the course of an investigation. You have the right to say 'no', but they can ask.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 11:50 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Isn't Personal Identification Number (PIN) recorded in police stations, which makes its "password" public (to policemen)?

When a bank issues a card for use in ATMs etc they also issue a PIN which was printed inside a sealed paper package. You key in the number to get money or to authorise a purchase. No-one else should know this number, and the bank warns the user NEVER to reveal it to anyone. Not even policemen. Maybe you are thinking about some other type of number?
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 12:54 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Not even in a joke, wud the police ask u that.


That isn't true. The police can, and sometimes will, ask for a PIN in the course of an investigation. You have the right to say 'no', but they can ask.


In what kind of investigation will they even need a PIN number? If they want to know your banking details, all they need is a warrant and they can compel the bank to give all of your relevant banking details. In that case, they don't need a PIN.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 01:56 pm
@maxdancona,
In the UK we are told not to give our PIN to anyone even the police. We're told to be suspicious of anyone asking for our PIN, especially if they claim to be police.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 01:59 pm
@oristarA,
The PIN is not held by the police, it is a randomly generated 4 digit number given to you by whatever debit/credit card you have. You can change it at the ATM if you want to. Every credit/debit card has its own pin. You can make them all the same if you want, or have them all different.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 03:41 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
The PIN is not held by the police

I suspect a collision of meanings - that Ori is confused between a "personal identification number" which uniquely identifies a person (does everyone have a number in China?), and a number which is personal (i.e.private; secret; individual) which a bank customer must keep from all other people.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 04:10 pm
@tsarstepan,
Quote:
In what kind of investigation will they even need a PIN number? If they want to know your banking details, all they need is a warrant and they can compel the bank to give all of your relevant banking details. In that case, they don't need a PIN.


The police can ask you for anything. They can't compel you, but they can ask...

If a police officer says to an intimidated teen, "Hey boy... will let me look at your bank statement to see if if you took out money today...". It could lead to evidence (i.e. a large withdrawal) that they would never get a warrant for.

It's equivalent to them saying... "hey there, can I see what is in your bag?". You don't have to say "yes" to the police, but the police know full well that they can ask even when they can't legally compel.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 May, 2014 09:36 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

izzythepush wrote:
The PIN is not held by the police

I suspect a collision of meanings - that Ori is confused between a "personal identification number" which uniquely identifies a person (does everyone have a number in China?), and a number which is personal (i.e.private; secret; individual) which a bank customer must keep from all other people.



Got the definition in the E-E dictionary:
personal identification number
n.
a number you choose and use to gain access to various accounts.

The confusion is dispersed.
I misread "personal identification number" as "personal identity number".
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 01:41 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Quote:
Not even in a joke, wud the police ask u that.


That isn't true. The police can, and sometimes will, ask for a PIN in the course of an investigation.
You have the right to say 'no', but they can ask.
I did not imply a legal prohibition on asking. A bum in the street can ask u.
Whether asked by police or by bums in streets,
the correct response is: go jam your head down the toilet.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 04:40 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
by bums in streets,
the correct response is: go jam your head down the toilet.



That's what toilets are for, bums.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 08:04 am
@izzythepush,
Well, if the bums get jobs,
thay will still continue to need to use toilets.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 08:53 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Bums do big jobs.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 May, 2014 09:18 am
@izzythepush,
Is that an oxymoronic contradiction-in-terms ?

If thay get work, and if thay actually show up to do it,
then thay forfeit their status.

Years ago, at one of my Opulent SIG dinners, a friend of mine was counseling a lad
against indolence. She implied that he is a bum, if he does not work.
I 'd been retired for a few years, and done NO work. I inquired of her
qua whether that fact defined me as a bum.

She drew the distinction that: "Well, u have money."
Is that a logically competent distinction ?
 

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