John Kerry admits committing Vietnam atrocities

But, Mr. FinnD' Abuzz- The entire world hates us. We are viewed as cruel conquerors. Are you saying that the whole world is wrong and we are right? If the Nazis had won the war, our Generals would have been tried at our "Nurenberg". You forget, FinnD" Abuzz, the victors write the histories- not the losers.

0 Replies

mporter wrote:

But, Mr. FinnD' Abuzz- The entire world hates us. We are viewed as cruel conquerors. Are you saying that the whole world is wrong and we are right? If the Nazis had won the war, our Generals would have been tried at our "Nurenberg". You forget, FinnD" Abuzz, the victors write the histories- not the losers.

mporter

You have, conviently, ducked all of my points.

So be it, let's concentrate on what you continue to write.

"The entire world hates us."

You certainly are given to grandiose and absolute statements. The entire world hates us? So my friends in Australia who tell me they love the US are really just lying?

What I am saying is that you are wrong. You have made this enormous, and frankly, arrogant presumption that the "entire world" agrees with you.

I must admit, I fail to see what your point is about victors writing history.

On the one hand you are making these sweeping and absolute statements on the evil of American behavior in Iraq and the Bush adminsitration, and on the other hand you are suggesting that any such statements are irrelevant unless you are on the winning side.

I'm puzzled. Does this mean that you believe that you are on the winning side? What side is that?

0 Replies

I'm in Australia, and I've NEVER heard anyone say they love the US. Plenty of us have friends in the US who we adore, but that doesn't extend to the US government, it's attitude, and actions.

0 Replies

mporter wrote:

Our rapacious military, led by Harry S. Truman, incinerated over 100,000 Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki...

...thereby saving (probably) millions of lives, since it was well known that every Japanese citizen on the island would fight to the death for their emporer and that he would never surrender. After he saw the devastation, he surrendered. And that was a lucky thing, because the US did not have a third bomb ready at that time.

0 Replies

Well known that every Japanese citizen would fight to the death? Now who's making unsubstantiated claims. That statement is nothing short of fanciful.

0 Replies

Tarantula says that "he served in a different branch of the military"

My understanding of the news leads me to believe that the real problem was that although he was a guardsman he didn't even fully serve his obligations there, let alone frontlines in vietnam, thats why they wont release his full records.

0 Replies

Wilso wrote:

I'm in Australia, and I've NEVER heard anyone say they love the US. Plenty of us have friends in the US who we adore, but that doesn't extend to the US government, it's attitude, and actions.

This gem recalls the NY Times film critic Pauline Kael who after Nixon was elected bleated, "I can't believe it! I don't know anyone who voted for him."

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone here (The US) say they love Australia. I guess that means no Americans (except me) do.

0 Replies

I love Australia and Aussies. When my daughter was there last summer, she came back reporting that the Aussies love Americans.

But wasn't it an Aussie who was a contractor trainer encouraging some of those abuses at Abu Graib? I may be thinking of something else, but even if it was, I think he would be a definite anomaly.

0 Replies

Quote:

But wasn't it an Aussie who was a contractor trainer encouraging some of those abuses at Abu Graib? I may be thinking of something else, but even if it was, I think he would be a definite anomaly.

For what purpose was that mentioned in the context of whether Australians like Americans or not?

0 Replies

Quote:

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone here (The US) say they love Australia. I guess that means no Americans (except me) do.

The United States and Americans are talked about everywhere in the world for one reason or another. I don't think your point signified anything.

0 Replies

revel wrote:

Quote:
Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone here (The US) say they love Australia. I guess that means no Americans (except me) do.

The United States and Americans are talked about everywhere in the world for one reason or another. I don't think your point signified anything.

I'm afraid I don't follow the point you are trying to make.

The "point" of the comment you quoted was to illustrate how ridiculous it is for someone to suggest that their personal experience define's the attitude of an entire nation, i.e. "I'm in (insert nation #1 here), and I've NEVER heard anyone say they love (insert nation #2 here)."

0 Replies

Finn D'Abuz

I understand your point, and you are correct.

I was just trying to say that most people from other countries have heard about the US and all about our government. So I would imagine that our country is probably more of a topic of coversation among ordinary people than Australia is a topic of conversation among ordinary people here in the US. So what I was getting at is that since (I assume) you live in the US and you haven't heard anyone say they love Australia it is not suprising since not to many talk about Austrailia at all one way or another. But in Austrailia I imagine that our country is brought up more among people and wilso has probably heard a lot of people talk about the US and not much of it to the good.

(I think I explained that right)

0 Replies

revel writes:

Quote:

Quote:
But wasn't it an Aussie who was a contractor trainer encouraging some of those abuses at Abu Graib? I may be thinking of something else, but even if it was, I think he would be a definite anomaly.

For what purpose was that mentioned in the context of whether Australians like Americans or not?

It was just an illustration that every country has its bad apples and these persons do not define who or what we are as nations. I think it is what a nation condones or approves that defines who and what it is as a nation. If I thought most aussies held the United States and its government in contempt, I would be ocncerned. I would think most aussies would not want most Americans to hold Australia and its government in contempt.

As both countries seem to share some basic essential core values, I don't see that happening no matter how dubiously some individuals view our president.

0 Replies

Tarantulas- Are you saying that it is acceptable to use a bad means for a good end? The bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima were, according to some writers, unnecessary since back channels were already working on possible surrender terms.

Under your ethics, the continued torture of Iraqi prisoners would be allowed since it might lead to a quicker pacification.

Don't you agree?

0 Replies

revel wrote:

Finn D'Abuz

I understand your point, and you are correct.

I was just trying to say that most people from other countries have heard about the US and all about our government. So I would imagine that our country is probably more of a topic of coversation among ordinary people than Australia is a topic of conversation among ordinary people here in the US. So what I was getting at is that since (I assume) you live in the US and you haven't heard anyone say they love Australia it is not suprising since not to many talk about Austrailia at all one way or another. But in Austrailia I imagine that our country is brought up more among people and wilso has probably heard a lot of people talk about the US and not much of it to the good.

(I think I explained that right)

I understood what you said :wink:

The only other time that I can imagine the US was discussed as much here as it is now was during the Vietnam war, when our then conservative government conscripted teenagers too young to vote and sent them to Vietnam for no other reason than to protect the alliance with the US. The left(ish) government that replaced them withdrew our troops-the same thing that's likely to happen this time.

I'm sure if you asked an American who'd travelled in Oz they would tell you that the most common question they were asked was "what do you think of Australia?". That's mainly due to the fact that many of our citizens seem to suffer from isolation fever. They seem to be worried about us being a long way from everywhere and ignored. With the crap that's going on in the world, I'd much prefer that it stayed that way.

0 Replies

Wilso,

I didn't mean to say your country is not worth talking about, however, I did end up saying that and for that I apologize.

For the most part, most ordinary people in the US really don't talk about other countries at all unless there is something specfic going on with that other country. Like for awhile there everyone was going on all about the French. But I bet that most of us ordinary people didn't even know the name of the French president before all that happened. (or whatever they call their leader) Most of us are more Bush in that we are pretty ignorant (and are not that interested to learn) about places outside of the US, it is just that we don't have daddy's with famous last names. Furthermore, unless we have to most people really dont even pay attention to our own government that much but are more interested in watching the lastest episode of Friends or the nascar races. Chances are everyone outside of the US will know exactly what those two things are (except maybe some really remote places).

But enough of this, I don't want to start down this conversation again and distract from the topic of this thread. I was just trying to explain that we Americans are for the most part self centered.

0 Replies

In a way you're all right. Bush and Kerry are both bad candidates. Gary Nolan looks pretty good though.

0 Replies

snagletooth wrote:

In a way you're all right. Bush and Kerry are both bad candidates. Gary Nolan looks pretty good though.

Nolan doesn't look like he can get past Aaron Russo, snagle.

Just my humble O...

0 Replies

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:

Wilso wrote:
I'm in Australia, and I've NEVER heard anyone say they love the US. Plenty of us have friends in the US who we adore, but that doesn't extend to the US government, it's attitude, and actions.

This gem recalls the NY Times film critic Pauline Kael who after Nixon was elected bleated, "I can't believe it! I don't know anyone who voted for him."

Come to think of it, I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone here (The US) say they love Australia. I guess that means no Americans (except me) do.

Finn

Though this site is not yet under my total control (soon...be patient, be patient) I want you to know that ANY instance of Kael-dissing constitutes site High Treason.

0 Replies

blatham wrote:

Finn

Though this site is not yet under my total control (soon...be patient, be patient) I want you to know that ANY instance of Kael-dissing constitutes site High Treason.

blatham

Then I will have to join the Resistance :wink:

0 Replies

John Kerry admits committing Vietnam atrocities

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know