John Kerry admits committing Vietnam atrocities

Everyone keeps bringing up that Bush used family connections to avoid the war. So did a lot of other people. Are you going to start Bashing them too?

Proud of John Kerry for being a baby killer, yet our troops are aweful. I don't get the liberal mind some times.

John Kerry served his country in Viet Nam and received Purple Hearts and Bronze Stars for his duty.

George "aWol" Bush on the other hand, avoided service to his country thanks to Poppy Bush getting his kid in the Guard where he inexplicably went from 500th in his class to 1st in his class ahead of well qualified men who had worked their way up the flight class foodchain.

But this wasn't enough for Bush, he went on to go AWOL for 18 months and failed to report to duty as ordered to in Alabama. But again, thanks to Poppy, Bush didn't get thrown in jail. Instead, he was allowed to make up the missing 18 months in 4 weekends.

SFB, you can't point fingers at others and cry "They did it too!" Bush Served in the reserves. If his unit had been called up, he would have went as would everyone else in his unit.

Now, compare that with Bill Clinton who ran away to the UK to avoid the war. Now, THERE is a draft dodger if there ever was one, but when you bring that up, it gets the rolly eyes and "Why bring up Clinton?" speeches.

Your second statement is dead on though. I don't get the liberal mind some times either.

1. He was following orders, ordinary troopers follow what are called rules of engagement, the commanders draw up these rules.
2. Baby killer?
3. I see nothing wrong in this clip in question, you have a young man answering his countries call to duty, and not liking what he has had to do and honestly and bravely coming forth and being able to objectively deal with the fact that he has had to do something he is not comfortable with.

And also at least kerry has a war record to be ashamed of, what was that other dolt doing while tens of thousands of young men his age were serving his country....

Last thing, your troops aren't awful for following the orders given to them, they are awful if they overstep their authorization and go kill civilians on their own, but if it is a matter of policy than the policy makers are the ones that should be responsible

Actually, this is incorrect. The prosecution of German soldiers during the Nuremberg Trials removed the "I was just following orders" excuse as a viable defense.

When I was in the Army, I went through a course that taught me the difference between a lawful order and an unlawful one.

For example:

I am told by my CO (Commanding Officer) to shoot the prisoners that I am guarding.

I not only do NOT have to follow that order, but it is my DUTY to disobey it and place the officer under arrest.

There are certain laws that transcend the orders of your officers and it is your obligation as a soldier to have the courage to make that decision and to stand for what is right. (The troops guarding the prison in Iraq seem to have forgotten that or maybe they don't teach that class anymore)

Again, as was stated earlier, Bush was in the Gaurd and would have gone if called. Clinton was in Europe and I would think that Kerry would be the dolt for not having the brains to get out of if.

Bush was in the Gaurd and would have gone if called.

ROFL! I think this sadly mistaken poster haas been reading too many Peggy Noonan treatises on the greatness of the Bush dynasty!

Deecups36 - when did you ever have to register for selective service?

As a woman, you obviously know I'm not required to, so go ahead on with your trick question.

Deecups36 is very patient. :wink:

I find it laughable that people are saying the President is a bad guy because he served in a different branch of the military than John Kerry. Also, the AWOL accusations have been proven to be bogus, so let's give those a rest, shall we?

Spiderman - they can't put those accusations to rest. It is one more reason to hate the guy. "He didn't serve in Vietnam" yet the democrats were protesting the war in Vietnam, burning draft card and running to Canada. Yet another occurence of a double standard for Democrats v Republicans

saintsanbrian- Honey, you can't have it both ways. Earlier you cheered your man Bush for being smart enough to get out of going to Vietnam and now you're dissing Democrats who were critical of Vietnam.

It's doesn't work both ways, sweetie.

Um - I cheer him because he joined the gaurd and would have gone. I am pointing out that the libs are complaining that he didn't serve yet the majority of them were dodging anyway. What, it's okay if you are a liberal and doged the draft but if you are a republican and joined the gaurd and didn't have to go then your family was able to get you out of it and so you should be vilified.

That is the point. Democrats that were/are critical of Vietnam didn't do it the right way. They should have joined the gaurd and then they could have stayed here and not had to worry, but it was so much more fun to drop acid, tune out and run for cover.

They should have joined the gaurd and then they could have stayed here and not had to worry...

Most Guard vacancies were filled as it was understood you had less a chance of seeing battle in the Guard, and most young men didn't have influencial daddies like George Bush and Dan Quayle to pull strinsg for them.

Ah lest we foget Mr. Clinton rushing off to Europe to attend school. I think we could go down both sides of the aisle and find plenty of people that served and plenty of others that avoided conflict.

st.brian:

Like so many of your ilk, you seem rather fixated on former President Clinton and his college deferal. I served in the Army and I'm not troubled by it.

Are you troubled by all the GOPers who jones for war, but who never served, or is it just your Clinton thingy?

GOP CHICKENHAWK GALLERY

George "aWol" Bush. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: timid daddy's boy

Dick Cheney. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: "had other priorities"

Spencer Abraham. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: Harvard law School

Elliot Abrams. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: bad back

Andrew Card. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Don Evans. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Asa Hutchinson. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Richard Perle. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

David Stockman. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Tommy Thompson. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: hid in Guard

Paul Wolfowitz. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

John Asscroft. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: "teaching business ed"

Ted Olsen. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Antonin Scalia. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Ken Starr. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: psoriasis

Clarence Thomas. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: law school

Lamar Alexander. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Bob Barr. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Gary Bauer. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Jebby Bush. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: timid daddy's boy

Tom DeLay. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: attended grad school

Newt Gingrich: Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: attended grad school

Dennis Hasert. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: bad knees/fat

Jack Kemp: Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: injured knee playing football

Don Nickles. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: cushy Guard slot

Dan Quayle. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: timid daddy's boy

Brit Hume. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Alan Keyes. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: law school

David Limbaugh. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: hid in Guard.

Rush Limbaugh. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: anal cyst, homosexual

Roger Ailes. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

Bill O'Reilly. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: college deferment

George Will. Avoided: Vietnam. Reason: attended divinity school

We love John Kerry in Phoenix. Phoenicians gave him a nice welcome when he visited here today.



I love the guys carrying the flip-flops!

A lot of other people aren't nazi presidents who murdered thousands of innocent people in order to steal another country's oil. The shrub is all those things and more.

Bush, as Commander in cheif, is personally responsible for the atrocities in Iraq. Many Americans have watched too many movies about our brave soldiers. The fact is that our military has always been brutal and vicious. We fire bombed Dresden in World War Two killing thousands of innocent women and children( nearly half of its population) even though it was clear by that time( 1945) that Germany would be defeated.

Our rapacious military, led by Harry S. Truman, incinerated over 100,000 Japanese civilians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, even though it was clear that Japan was nearly defeated.

American troops in VietNam, including the prospective candidate, John Kerry, who, to his credit has regretted his participation, murdered thousands of women and children in the process called 'pacification"

And, now, the American president, George W. Bush, in an almost insane attempt to revenge the abortive attempt on his father's life, has led the American troops to commit the most heinous atrocities on Iraqis.

The world is watching. President Bush must account for his crimes.

And many Americans have succumbed to the lure of revisionist historians.

I've not yet read it but a new book about Dresden was reviewed in last week's NY Times Book Review, and it, apparently, rebuts any number of the revisionists' claims about Dresden. See - http://www.nytimes.com/indexes/2004/05/02/books/review/index.html
When I tried it, however, the link to this book review wasn't working.



Another disputed claim, and your choice of the word "rapacious, " in describing the American military is interesting, if not telling. Out of curiosity, if the American military of WWII was rapacious, how would you describe the Imperial Army of Japan?

The you must be now giving credit to George Bush and Donald Rumsfeld who not only have expressed regret over the prisoner abuse in Iraq, they've apologized for it!



Think what you will about the reasons for going to war with Iraq, but the charge that it was due at all, let alone primarily, for GW's sense of revenge is laughable, but only too common.

As for "the most heinous atrocities," more heinous than the Battan Death March? More heinous than Nazi concentration camps? More heinous than raping a woman and then feeding her to one's dogs (see Uday's tender mercies)? More heinous than feeding men and women into plastic chippers? More heinous that forcing fathers to watch their daughters being raped and tortured?



Appropriately dramatic revolutionary rhetoric, but, specifically, what crimes might those be?