The FemaNatzi that Rush talks about?

I kid the West Virginians because I grew up in Akron Ohio, the Capital of West Virginia......

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Nice - so automatically if some one is from the south they are a dumb redneck trailer trash and everyone from the north is educated and respectable.

Nope no double standards here.

It is quite obvious that the majority of the people that are ridculing our president, and the men and women that are over in Iraq and Afghanistan, would not or could not do the same thing regardless of the reasoning. I bet the devil himself could come walking down main street in their towns and they would curse the cars for slowing him down.

Do I condone what the 7 -12 soldiers did over there? Nope, but the military is taking care of it and will punish them to its fullest extent which is a lot worse then they would get in a civilian prison.

Calling a girl that is trying to do her duty a bit of trailer trash is repulsive. Unless you personally know her, you have no right to call her names, she is doing a job that you wouldn't lower your "educated" selves to do.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Nice - so automatically if some one is from the south they are a dumb redneck trailer trash and everyone from the north is educated and respectable.

Nope no double standards here.

It is quite obvious that the majority of the people that are ridculing our president, and the men and women that are over in Iraq and Afghanistan, would not or could not do the same thing regardless of the reasoning. I bet the devil himself could come walking down main street in their towns and they would curse the cars for slowing him down.

Do I condone what the 7 -12 soldiers did over there? Nope, but the military is taking care of it and will punish them to its fullest extent which is a lot worse then they would get in a civilian prison.

Calling a girl that is trying to do her duty a bit of trailer trash is repulsive. Unless you personally know her, you have no right to call her names, she is doing a job that you wouldn't lower your "educated" selves to do.

Not that I have to point out that BPB was poking as much fun at himself as at West Virginians, but nowhere in this thread did anyone cast aspersions on this woman's place of birth. You say double standards are running through this thread, and I say it's a whole lot of assumption. Sheesh, I didn't even know she was from West Virginia, and I couldn't care less. I merely made a suggestion, albeit not directly, that she could make better coin doing this sort of thing in a different professional field, one not related to the military. Please show me where anyone involved in this discussion directly and pointedly called this soldier "trailer trash".

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This situation is not unique and there has been some research on it.

New York Times May 6, 2004

Simulated Prison in '71 Showed a Fine Line Between `Normal' and `Monster'
By JOHN SCHWARTZ

Published: May 6, 2004

In 1971 researchers at Stanford University created a simulated prison in the basement of the campus psychology building. They randomly assigned 24 students to be either prison guards or prisoners for two weeks.
Within days the "guards" had become swaggering and sadistic, to the point of placing bags over the prisoners' heads, forcing them to strip naked and encouraging them to perform sexual acts.
The landmark Stanford experiment and studies like it give insight into how ordinary people can, under the right circumstances, do horrible things ?- including the mistreatment of prisoners at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
What is the distance between "normal" and "monster"? Can anyone become a torturer?
Dr. Philip G. Zimbardo, a leader of the Stanford prison study, said that while the rest of the world was shocked by the images from Iraq, "I was not surprised that it happened."
"I have exact, parallel pictures of prisoners with bags over their heads," from the 1971 study, he said.

Link to NYT

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Bi-Polar Bear wrote:

I kid the West Virginians because I grew up in Akron Ohio, the Capital of West Virginia......

I have a friend who refers to the west side of Columbus as West Virginia West . . . and he personally hails from West By God . . .

I find it rather ironic that the western counties of Virginia were split from the rest of that state, and used to form a new state--West Virginia--precisely because they were opposed to secession from the Union. Generalizations about what is and what isn't southern often come up as specious for exactly this reason. I grew up in Virginia; many years later, i lived in southern Illinois, a "northern state"--yet, where i lived in Illinois was farther south than almost all of Virginia. Perhaps one ought to assume that what is southern is a product of one's mind set.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Nice - so automatically if some one is from the south they are a dumb redneck trailer trash and everyone from the north is educated and respectable.

Nope no double standards here.

It is quite obvious that the majority of the people that are ridculing our president, and the men and women that are over in Iraq and Afghanistan, would not or could not do the same thing regardless of the reasoning. I bet the devil himself could come walking down main street in their towns and they would curse the cars for slowing him down.

Do I condone what the 7 -12 soldiers did over there? Nope, but the military is taking care of it and will punish them to its fullest extent which is a lot worse then they would get in a civilian prison.

Calling a girl that is trying to do her duty a bit of trailer trash is repulsive. Unless you personally know her, you have no right to call her names, she is doing a job that you wouldn't lower your "educated" selves to do.

Take a pill Martha....I've lived in the South 40 of my 55 years......second of all a girl trying to do her duty? What sort of advanced training program does one take after basic to learn to pose prisoners naked while smirking smoking and pointing at their peckers or making them sit on other guys heads? Trailer trash is about 1000% too kind for this c-word IMO, and your goddamm right she was doing something most of us wouldn't lower ourselves to, bet your ass on that buddy.

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It's not unusual for enlisted men and women in a combat situation to act like brutes; that's their job most of the time, and it's hard for them to turn it on and off. That's why they have officers, to set limits and controls. In this case the officers ordered them to "soften up" the prisoners. The intelligence officers knew what was going on and expected it, condoned it, and sanctioned it. These officers were under pressure by their superiors to get iinformation from the prisoners or get "hell" from their superiors, who either didn't know what was going on or didn't care, because they were under pressure from their superiors to get results.

That's why we have the military under the ultimate control of the civilians, Rumsfeld and Bush, who set the policies and must take the ultimate responsibility for the actions of the military. That's why it's important for a president to have had military experience; so they know how the bureaucracy of the military works. Anybody who has been in the military knows what a hierarchal, "pass the buck," and officious bureaucracy the military is. It doesn't help that the civilian administration operates in the same manner.

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Set when I was in Akron from age 4 to 15, the big joke, well based in fact, was that Akron was the Capital of West Virginia because folks jumped right on a greyhound and rode up 52 to Akron to work the rubber factories in order to escape the drudgery of the coal mines and make more money, not that the rubber factories were a day at the beach either......

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Rubber factories eh...was it the better pay, or the free condoms that motivated folks?

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Not those kind of rubber factories :wink: ...although the Akwell corporation did manufacture Sultans there.......

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Oh - so now we lower ourselves to name calling. I see.

Like I said, I don't condone her action, but atleast she had the guts to join the military and to go over there and "just follow orders" to borrow a quote from John Kerry who you all seem to love so much.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Oh - so now we lower ourselves to name calling. I see.

Like I said, I don't condone her action, but atleast she had the guts to join the military and to go over there and "just follow orders" to borrow a quote from John Kerry who you all seem to love so much.

So you agree that someone higher up in the chain of command ordered her and her colleagues to treat these prisoners in that manner? Do you think they gave them the specifics or did they just say f**k with'em, humiliate them, torture them and use your imagination?

I'm really curious as to your opinion on this.

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My opinion is actually that there were 10 or so people that have become "drunk" with power that they did something that they probably never would have done in their life over here in the states. War does strange things to people and it makes for strange bedfellows.

I beleive that if you were to take a poll of all of the soldiers over there, you would find that 129,000 of them do not condone and would not do the same thing in the same situation. Unfortunately it wasn't their job to gaurd the prisoners and they were not in a situation where they could do anything about it. The ones that did not agree with the treatment, did tell their superiors and the matter was looked in to. It is unfortunate that there are members of the media that don't hesitate to print this type of "drek" to use a word that so many around this forum seem to like. It is unfortunate that they do all that is in their power to show the rest of the world how barbaric the United States Military is. Where were these same reporters when Saddam had his Rape rooms and torture chambers set up.

No I am not saying turn abouts is fair play, now that we have you captive we are going to torture you the same way you tortured your own people. I'm saying that if you are outraged by this, whey aren't you outraged by what Saddam himself was doing or his soldiers were doing? Maybe we should just give them all a hug.

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And I won't ask who says that because I am outraged by the behavior of these US soldiers I am not outraged by Saddams behavior....because you've already said it for me......

I'd also say that if you polled the very people responsible for this outrage, you'd find that they didn't condone it nor would they do it....what do you think, they would just volunteer that they did it? Rolling Eyes

I think you need a hug......

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My brother was an MP in the Air Force. He didn't think very highly of most MP's then as they tend to be a bit obnoxious and power hungry. I am sure that probably extends over to the Army pretty well.

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I am not saying that they would volunteer it, I am saying that you shouldn't hold the actions of a few over the heads of the masses. I don't need a hug, I don't go for that hippie feel good garbage.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

I am not saying that they would volunteer it, I am saying that you shouldn't hold the actions of a few over the heads of the masses. I don't need a hug, I don't go for that hippie feel good garbage.

It's evident you prefer being pissed off and full of bile...hope you like the taste sweetie pie........

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Wow, everyone is so nice calling me honey and sweetie. I don't know what I am going to do. I think I'll go have a cry.

You know all of us conservatives are dead inside. We have no heart and we want the world to go in jack boots, lock step to the way we want.

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saintsfanbrian wrote:

Wow, everyone is so nice calling me honey and sweetie. I don't know what I am going to do. I think I'll go have a cry.

weekend at the log cabin? :wink:

You know all of us conservatives are dead inside. We have no heart and we want the world to go in jack boots, lock step to the way we want.

That's too bad. Crying or Very sad

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I guess I don't get your reference to a weekend at the log cabin. I am not a back woods person and don't go for the rustic thing. I like technology it's good. Besides with out it my guns would cost a whole lot more.

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The FemaNatzi that Rush talks about?

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