22
   

Donald Sterling

 
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 05:19 pm
@panzade,
Where don't you?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 05:30 pm
@panzade,
I'm for the players, and probably for some coaches, and great numbers of fans. I don't automatically question all owners' takes, as personal thoughts and money as a question can intersect.

Maybe we needed this, such blatancy, as a wake up.

hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 06:29 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Oprah Winfrey, David Geffen and Larry Ellison will join together in a bid to buy the Los Angeles Clippers if the NBA's board of governors votes to force Donald Sterling to sell the team, Geffen told ESPN's Jeremy Schaap on Wednesday.

Geffen said he and Ellison would run the team, while Winfrey would be an investor.

"Oprah is not interested in running the team," Geffen told Schaap. "She thinks it would be a great thing for an important black American to own [another] franchise.

"The team deserves a better group of owners who want to win. Larry would sooner die than fail. I would sooner die than fail. Larry's a sportsman. We've talked about this for a long time. Between the three of us, we have a good shot."

Winfrey's spokesperson, Nicole Nichols, issued a statement later Wednesday, confirming Geffen's claim.


http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10861503/oprah-winfrey-group-considering-bid-buy-los-angeles-clippers

if they would be willing to pay a premium to Sterling as a charity in the public interest to get him to go away then we might just have a solution.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 06:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I don't quite understand your response to my post.

I think there HAS been quite a scene around Sterling's remarks - and he has been banned for LIFE from ...what? ever going to a basketball game? Plus 2 and a half million dollars? Argue if you like, but this is a HUGE response. He'll likely be forced to sell his team. He is excoriated roundly on social media. So, starting by saying we haven't burned him at the stake seem like you're just trying to hard to argue. He's pretty crispy.

The only other thing I said was I had to learn more about the reach of the NBA against owners before I could develop a reasoned opinion. You seem to have some of those facts.

He didn't say to harm blacks, or make any enormous, stupid stereotypical statement about blacks. He just told some golddigging chick she better not post any public pictures with blacks. I'm most definitely not defending this guy. I know his racist history, but it still bothers me that he was being baited by this money-grubber, made a stupid but pretty mild racist statement - and the world acted like they caught him wearing a hood.

Although I have to defer to your superior understanding of league rules, outside that - it seems a bit overblown. But, if what you say is accurate - and I have no reason to doubt it - it's the same scenario as a paid sportscaster dude making a wince-worthy gaffe - and being fired.
BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:01 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
But, if what you say is accurate - and I have no reason to doubt it - it's the same scenario as a paid sportscaster dude making a wince-worthy gaffe - and being fired.


First the ownership agreement details in question is not in fact a matter of public record let alone if a court would act to enforce a force sale or not base on the agreement is a very open question so unless our friend have access to the private ownership agreement and on top of that a leading legal expert of courts willingness to enforce such agreements he is blowing smoke.

The situation is not anywhere near like a sportscaster being fired.

Footnote Stirling was fined once for the misdeed of moving the team with out permission and he counter suit the league so they ended up settling for a greatly reduce fine.

If the agreement was rock solid there would had been no need for them to had back down over the fine.
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:01 pm
BY JONATHAN CAPEHART

Quote:
Those were a some teachable moments among many that sparked a national conversation on race. And then, as always, once the initial shock wore off and the outrage died down or was redirected, nothing happened. As I wrote in the aftermath of the Gates arrest, there is a reason nothing happens. Conversations on race are deeply personal and require that we talk to each other, one on one and face to face. But they also require trust. Time and time again, we have seen that there is absolutely no trust at the national level to have these complicated and uncomfortable discussions.
But in the messy life of Donald Sterling here is the one thing he did right. He talked openly and honestly with a trusted friend about race.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2014/04/30/what-donald-sterling-did-right-on-race/?hpid=z2

Yep, we be are not allowed to talk about race, the only speech that is acceptable is the reciting of the approved script
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:05 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
it's the same scenario as a paid sportscaster dude making a wince-worthy gaffe - and being fired.
as often happens now. we live in a zero tolerance society, one where the communication is piss poor, and where too many people add deep ignorance to their intolerance. Make no mistake, in this instance the majority of the intolerance has come from the mob which demands the decapitation of Sterling for the offense of saying the wrong words (in private), not from Sterling.

NOTE: for about a decade the US military ran on zero tolerance for errors from its officers , up till war broke out and the military actually needed to produce, and they found out that they had promoted the wrong people. There is a huge cost to intolerance, to our refusal to allow conversations on important issues like race. Under the current scheme the agenda is never examined, and under those conditions we cant help but to do stupid and damaging things to ourselves.
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:20 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Sanctimony sells, and since there is no shortage of people who embrace sanctimony free of charge, now that it can turn a profit we are doomed to be inundated with it.

Maybe you're a bit too cynical or maybe I don't get what you're saying.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:25 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
The situation is not anywhere near like a sportscaster being fired.

It is in that the retribution doesn't come from the gov't, but from economics/a job/your business.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:37 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

I don't quite understand your response to my post.

I think there HAS been quite a scene around Sterling's remarks - and he has been banned for LIFE from ...what? ever going to a basketball game? Plus 2 and a half million dollars? Argue if you like, but this is a HUGE response. He'll likely be forced to sell his team. He is excoriated roundly on social media. So, starting by saying we haven't burned him at the stake seem like you're just trying to hard to argue. He's pretty crispy.

He's a billionaire. $2.5M (the NBA max fine) is nothing to him. (He bought his set-up bitch 4 cars that amount to about $1M)

He deserves to be chastised for what he said. That today is a Social Media World is his misfortune, but doesn't minimize the price he should pay in this regard.

When he is "forced" to sell his team, he will make billions. I should be so lucky as to be forced to do something.


The only other thing I said was I had to learn more about the reach of the NBA against owners before I could develop a reasoned opinion. You seem to have some of those facts.

He didn't say to harm blacks, or make any enormous, stupid stereotypical statement about blacks. He just told some golddigging chick she better not post any public pictures with blacks. I'm most definitely not defending this guy. I know his racist history, but it still bothers me that he was being baited by this money-grubber, made a stupid but pretty mild racist statement - and the world acted like they caught him wearing a hood.

Whether or not you think what he said a a big deal, it turned out to be just this...a very big deal.

Although I have to defer to your superior understanding of league rules, outside that - it seems a bit overblown. But, if what you say is accurate - and I have no reason to doubt it - it's the same scenario as a paid sportscaster dude making a wince-worthy gaffe - and being fired.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:47 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:


Footnote Stirling was fined once for the misdeed of moving the team with out permission and he counter suit the league so they ended up settling for a greatly reduce fine.

If the agreement was rock solid there would had been no need for them to had back down over the fine.

Apparently you have no concept of economically advantageous settlements. This is why so many trial lawyers are out there abusing the system.


The bottom line is that you are caterwauling about free speech and this has nothing to do with that. Sterling can, very possibly, tie up the NBA in litigation for years to come (again, abuse of the system), but it doesn't mean he is either morally or legally right.

The man is a bigot, his team is overwhelmingly African-American and they, rightly or wrongly, are very pissed off. He can take your advice and stick it to his erstwhile "friends" with protracted litigation, or he can man-up and accept that he f*cked up and take his additional millions (if not billions) upon selling the team and doing right by the league.

BTW - This isn't the first time this bigot revealed his racism.

You are tilting at windmills and without any of the charm or nobility of Don Quixote.

0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:49 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Oh god. I haven't gone multi-colored in years.

Here's hoping this works!

I said this in response to your comment that Sterling hadn't been burned at the stake. You say he deserves to be chastised. Obviously, I think a lifetime ban from the sport, likely having to sell, public hanging, and a 2 and a half mil fine is a bit above and beyond what I consider chastisement.
I think there HAS been quite a scene around Sterling's remarks - and he has been banned for LIFE from ...what? ever going to a basketball game? Plus 2 and a half million dollars? Argue if you like, but this is a HUGE response. He'll likely be forced to sell his team. He is excoriated roundly on social media. So, starting by saying we haven't burned him at the stake seem like you're just trying to hard to argue. He's pretty crispy.

He's a billionaire. $2.5M (the NBA max fine) is nothing to him. (He bought his set-up bitch 4 cars that amount to about $1M)

He deserves to be chastised for what he said. That today is a Social Media World is his misfortune, but doesn't minimize the price he should pay in this regard.

When he is "forced" to sell his team, he will make billions. I should be so lucky as to be forced to do something.
Here's where I'm thinking about you and me. We say something stupid which we all do to close friends... Maybe nothing racial but something socially unpopular... We can be swept by public sentiment and forced to sell a property we love? For me, it's not about this one guy and exactly what he said - it's how power shifts in such a way to force public opinion on us.

The only other thing I said was I had to learn more about the reach of the NBA against owners before I could develop a reasoned opinion. You seem to have some of those facts.

He didn't say to harm blacks, or make any enormous, stupid stereotypical statement about blacks. He just told some golddigging chick she better not post any public pictures with blacks. I'm most definitely not defending this guy. I know his racist history, but it still bothers me that he was being baited by this money-grubber, made a stupid but pretty mild racist statement - and the world acted like they caught him wearing a hood.

Whether or not you think what he said a a big deal, it turned out to be just this...a very big deal.
It was manufactured into a big deal. Hence my yammering.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 07:52 pm
I have butterflymilk mentioning my niece in passing (who I described wrong, she was born in LA of course, I've said so many times here) as some kind of possible white prop. Took me a while to get him on that.
The whole white prop for racism thing.



I have hawk and forces enraged at much, including free speech about and for a big business conglomerate with it's own business rules.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:02 pm
@ossobuco,
You've heard people say "Some of my best friends are black..." Even though I give you credit for not being "that person," your introduction of your niece at that particular point did seem like you were using her as a credential.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:05 pm
@panzade,
Here's what I'm saying:

Sterling is an old, possibly demented, bigoted idiot. (This based on more than this one issue)

His comments were very weird, but almost certainly bigoted.

I can perfectly understand why the Clipper players and coaching staff (and possibly those around the league) are at, least, very troubled.

What I don't get is how this has far wider societal implications.

One asshole somewhere say something noxious about any subject. He or she hates Jews, wants to see President Bush murdered, thinks all white people should die, burns Korans, etc etc etc.

It is one asshole, whether he or she is an owner of a NBA team, the preacher of some Christian sect, or the leader of the New Black Panthers.

Everyone, on both sides of the spectrum, want to take the words of one asshole and inflate them into a national issue. Why?

Because they benefit from so doing so, and almost always (when the trail is explored) financially.

This is an NBA issue. It is not an American issue and when hordes of pundits represent it as proof that racism in America is a huge problem, it pisses me off. Especially when their motivation is to sell copy and appear to be oh so liberal.

It is either base exploitation or sanctimonious claptrap.

If you feel the need to make the case that racism remain a significant problem for this country, then this one matter is in no way proof of anything other than hyper-sensitivity and the economics or race huckstering.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
What I don't get is how this has far wider societal implications.

"you cant say that, ever, and if you do we will have your head!"
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:16 pm
@Lash,
No, I was answering buttermilk, who made mentioning loved ones a challenge, as if done for credit.
He seems to take someone mentioning loved ones as crap, a whity move.

I hope he gets over that.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:19 pm
@Lash,
When this happens to people like you and me and we are forced to sell our property (unencumbered by contracts with moral clauses) because of some stupid thing we posted on Facebook, then I will be the first person to mount the barricades.

We can't criticize the ridiculous hyperbole of the Left and accept it as rightfully our own.

I do believe that we are perilously close to a day when the barricades will have to be manned, but Sterling should never be an inspiration for us. He is not beset my an overreaching government.

People can and do gratuitously and maliciously scream "racism" all the time. It is infuriating, but ultimately the question is what is the impact?

Yes, it is pernicious and degrades our society, but each and every time it is done, it is not a) Incorrect, and b) Has wider implications.

In any case, no matter what we may think about this New Age McCarthyism, it hardly advances our resistance to it by defending (in anyway) a clear bigot, who is being punished in a manner consistent with the business deal he accepted.

0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  4  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
This is an NBA issue. It is not an American issue

I'm not sure. Many times sports issues are societal issues. A couple that come to mind.
Jackie Robinson and the abuse he endured as a black man.
Muhammad Ali and the hate he endured for evading the draft.
Sometimes sports issues are a litmus test, no matter how many in the media pander to the holier-than-thou
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 30 Apr, 2014 08:21 pm
@Lash,
Who do you think I am?

My niece is not a credential. He was dismissing me for mentioning her as a sort of prop.
 

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