22
   

Donald Sterling

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 12:54 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
you can't possibly believe that black Americans are trying to sell a "victim" story.
I most certainly can. The first problem is that they convince themselves that the reason they are underclass is because they are victims of their skin color. All of the successful blacks are proof that they are self deluded.

One of my boys best friends is black, from successful parents...he has worked for me and we talk.... he says that he was taught very early that in his house being black is never an excuse for failing. In fact pretty much nothing is a good excuse, do it or else. He was number three in his HS class, I asked if the parents were proud, he said he guesses so but this was expected. Both of his sisters before him were also at the top of their classes.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 01:47 pm
@Buttermilk,
I like the way u write; articulate.
WELCOME to the forum.
Do u wish to tell us anything about yourself,
e.g., your likes, aversions, ideology, career choices
or anything that u deem to be important in life ?
The forum is anonymous; u shud feel free to contribute
anything or nothing, according to your personal preference.


Buttermilk wrote:
Being an engineer has nothing to do with having the capacity to utilize common sense
nor does it demonstrate an ability to critically think.
From that notion, I must dissent.
Below some minimal criterion of mental functionality,
he cud not execute the duties necessary to sustaining himself in that profession. He cud not make a living.
I 'm sure that there r people whose strength of intellect was not sufficient
to pass tests for professional licensure, or even to be admitted into the schools in the first place.



Buttermilk wrote:
There are plenty of physicians and nurses I know that measure patient medication
and utilize complex medical instruments who lack common sense
or intellectual autonomy.
Yes. I remember being quite taken aback
by an M.D. I saw on TV of confessed great gullibility.
He lamented his having fallen for the Nigerian sweepstakes scam,
giving over huge sums of money, in multiple renditions,
with abundant interstitial opportunity for contemplative analytical scrutiny;
yet, he persisted n recidivated, passively complicit in his own financial rape.
It strains credulity that anyone cud be so dum; blows my mind.
Regardless: he had the intellectual power to pass his medical exams.
Few people do.
Psychologists tell us that the human mind is capable of great "compartmentalization",
such that it is good at something and deficient in other things. Maybe he was an "idiot-savant".



Buttermilk wrote:
Most of them often forget to pay attention to detail and the fact
that he has demonstrated a lack of intellectual ability here on a
mere sports discussion says nothing about whether he was a retired successful engineer.
Over the years, we have had posters
some of whom openly admitted to being mentally disabled,
including hallucinatory psychoses, and/or being of only
very modest strength of intellect. For a long time, based on his
abysmal syntax, I made the error of believing that Bill was stupid.
Eventually, his intelligence was revealed and I adopted respect for his mind.
There is a minimum above which one 's mind must achieve
to successfully become an employable, functioning professional man.
Bill is above that level, despite first appearances. He is NOT mentally crippled.

Our chosen words r FLAGS that represent our minds and spirits.
Bill 's flags do not represent him well. He is better than thay r.





Buttermilk wrote:
Anyone on the internet can be an engineer.
U think so, huh ?



Buttermilk wrote:
I could be an astronaut.
Maybe; it seems statistically un-likely.
I 'd have NO chance of admission to the Astronaut Program.


Buttermilk wrote:
These are mere words
No; thay represent concepts, to wit: extant careers.



Buttermilk wrote:
but how he has demonstrated himself here,
whatever he has said is suspect.
A healthy mind will and shud apply skepticism to anyone.


Buttermilk wrote:
As far as your comment:

"Can ignorance be forceful?"

Yes. If a racist person is presented with evidence that all Homo
Sapiens are descend from the Homo Erectus who originated in Africa,
and the racist willfully denies this claim despite insurmountable
evidence, that is forcing oneself to ignore factual claims despite
those claims being substantiated by factual and objective evidence.
Speaking generally, qua everyone,
I 'm not going to endorse hypocrisy. I will n DO endorse n admire
having the courage to stick to your guns, if u believe that u r right,
despite popular pressure to wave the white flag n give up; cowardice.
Einstein said (from his personal experience) that the progress of science
is from funeral to funeral to funeral of emotionally recalcitrant,
fanatical Newtonian physicists who bedeviled him.
He focused on his interests. U focus on yours (racism).




Buttermilk wrote:
So in this case, if I challenge BillRM's notion that the slogan "no justice, no peace" and I substantiate my claim that it refers to a Biblical passage and that the philosophy behind that has some sort of spiritual/social context to it yet he refrains from actually looking at it and continues with his own bias that is willful ignorance and outright stupid.
Bill is an atheist.


Buttermilk wrote:
It's about ignoring factual claims that contradict a person's beliefs.
U can persist in pressing the point, if u wish.
That is fully paradigmatic for A2K. I 've done it sometimes.



Buttermilk wrote:
If someone ignores the basic mathematical principle that 2+2=4 and continues to believe
that 2+2=5 that is not only ignorant but its also stupid
AGREED. IF someone did that,
it wud indicate both absence of information and relatively poor,
inferior quality analysis, a/k/a: stupidity.



Buttermilk wrote:
because universally most people comprehend that 2+2=4. A 10 month old baby is ignorant of that fact because a baby is absent of any mathematical foundation. BillRM is a grown ass man who knows that every African American marriages are not related to this subject. He also knows that Jesse Jackson does not speak for all African-Americans as case in point, me being part of the all I've told him several times now he doesn't speak for me.

BillRM knows that all blacks are not violent
Yea?? How about O. J. ?



Buttermilk wrote:
(if such were the case he wouldn't have made it known he has bi-racial kids in his family).
Yet if one maintains that a particular group is hostile despite the overwhelming evidence
that is opposite of that then yes you deserve to be called stupid.

It's one thing to be without knowledge, its another to know a thing but refuse to accept that truth.
Indeed. That wud be hypocrisy.





David
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 02:37 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Anti-semitism is look upon with far more favorably then racism directed toward blacks it would seems by some.

That is why both Jackson and Sharpton could get away with slurs directed at Jews or even promoting violence toward Jews for that matter.


With all the issues the Black community is attempting to deal with, do they really have the time to be philo-Semites? Or, one might perceive Black anti-Semitism as reflective of where whites were in the 1930's. Meaning one might have to be collectively upscale to subscribe to a progressive agenda? Progressivism might be too strong a brew for all segments of society, based on where that segment is collectively? Compare the collective anti-Semitism of 1930's Irish-Americans and the Irish-Americans of the 21st century. It might seem like two different demographics. Nothing like success to make anti-Semitism a non-sequitor for a demographic, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 02:44 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

hawk, you can't possibly believe that black Americans are trying to sell a "victim" story.


That story seems to begin and end with color, as though whites just don't like certain colors in the Crayola box, totally ignoring the fear of Black crime, civil unrest, or a culture that mocks acting white in some segments.

firefly
 
  5  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 02:50 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The first problem is that they convince themselves that the reason they are underclass is because they are victims of their skin color. All of the successful blacks are proof that they are self deluded...

That's a ridiculous statement.

First you make a totally unsupported and questionable statement about what "they" think--as though a massive and simplistic over-generalization on your part has some sort of validity.

Then you cite "successful blacks" as though their ability to succeed proves your point that blacks do not encounter problems or prejudice due to their skin color--which is absurd.
Quote:

One of my boys best friends is black, from successful parents...

Unfortunately, your son's friend would have appeared to be just as "suspicious" and "up to no good" as Trayvon Martin appeared to George Zimmerman, when Zimmerman spotted him walking around and talking on his cell phone as he returned from the store. That's why President Obama said, "Trayvon Martin could have been my son," and "I could have been Trayvon Martin 35 years ago." Prejudice, and stereotyping, and judgments, and, fear, and differential treatment, are often based on little more than skin color. And of course, this affects the recipients of such treatment in all sorts of ways, even the most successful among them. Your son's friend has to be more conscious and aware of his skin color than your son does, because other people will make him aware of it.

And Donald Sterling is one of those people who makes judgments based on skin color--that conversation with his girlfriend was just the latest example of it. And in his case, his statements serve to denigrate most of the players on the team he owns, and most of the men on all the other NBA teams as well, men who have every reason to be outraged and offended by his attitude and views, and men who have a right to demand his ouster, in defense of their own basic human dignity.

Rapidly, following Sterling's statements becoming public, over $2 million in sponsorships was immediately lost, as corporate sponsors distanced themselves from Sterling's offensive statements, and withdrew their support to avoid damaging or tainting their own brand images through any association with him or his views.

Prejudice/bigotry is ugly, and ignorant, and it has ramifications that have a real impact on the everyday lives of those who are its targets, and ultimately on the lives of all of us. It's not innocuous speech that should just be ignored, or even worse, accepted, as legitimate opinion. It's based on over-generalized thinking and negative stereotyping, neither of which can lead to accurate perceptions or judgments. And you and BillRM both engage in that type of thinking as well, quite often, although BillRM is generally more egregious in that regard than you are.

And bigotry is harmful and damaging, in it's effects. Sterling has already financially damaged the NBA through his comments and views, he's created dissention with the players on his own team and with the other owners. Sure, he's entitled to his opinions, but others are equally entitled to react to those opinions, and the response he's gotten is overwhelmingly negative. And the NBA doesn't want their brand to be damaged because of their association with him, which is why they are calling for an end to all vestiges of any connection. In terms of the NBA's self-interest, he's like a malignancy that has to be removed before it causes any more damage. And they appear to have the legal means to go about removing him.

You just have extreme difficulty focusing on what this situation is about because, as usual, your real interest is promoting an agenda based on your own biased views.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 03:47 pm
@hawkeye10,
I guess we've hijacked this thread. Maybe we should start another one. There are wonderful stories of people who rise above their circumstance, people who use a bad circumstance as an excuse to do what they please, and people who are scarred and stunted at different levels due to their circumstance.

The education system alone is enough to wreck chances for children in poor neighborhoods. I've seen it up close and it is a great shame on our country. Still.

0 Replies
 
firefly
 
  3  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 03:49 pm
@Buttermilk,
Quote:
I want to thank firefly for the insightful post regarding Marge schott because i was unaware that something similar happened to another owner. In relation to firefly's link and this thread I wanted to highlight some interesting facts:

"Marge didn’t limit her ugliness to blacks. She spread it like buckshot. Schott offended everyone from scouts to Jews, gays to blacks. The litany of her indiscretions was comprehensive and impressive.”


I think that today there would be even less tolerance for Marge Schott, her biased and offensive remarks would have been even more widely disseminated, more continuously, and the social media we have now would be ablaze with response to them. I think she would have been removed from baseball quite quickly.

Sterling is even worse than Schott, because he's demonstrated his bigotry by violating laws and displaying racial discrimination in who he would rent housing to, making prejudicial statements about blacks in those instances as well. And his remarks, in that conversation with his girlfriend, are specifically demeaning to the majority of players in his own sport, including those on the team he owns, which was not true in the case of Schott. It can be argued that he's a more damaging and destructive presence in the sport of basketball than she was in baseball.

As to your frustration, and clear exasperation, with BillRM, and his failure to address your points, and his digressions and irrelevancies in pursuit of his own obsessions (like his well known obsession with Al Sharpton), and his closed-minded attitude, and his willful ignorance, etc., well, welcome to the club, Buttermilk. That's BillRM, in thread after thread, across a wide variety of topics. And, when Hawkeye shows up, and the two engage in their tag-team routine, trying to dominate the discussion and hijack a thread for their own purpose, the thread usually does wind up trashed and full of their drivel, and preoccupations, rather than any cogent discussion of the topic, and that is a shame.

As a newbie to A2K, I hope you won't let any of that discourage you from continuing here, both in this thread and any other threads. Other posters are well aware of what those two are like, and many choose to just ignore them. When BillRM shared with you the litany of names and insults that have been directed at him, by other people in other threads, he also omitted one. The owner of this site called him "the village idiot." and that about sums him up. You'll never get him to even listen to any point of view other than his own, I can assure you of that. He's a classic example of , "don't confuse me with the facts, my mind's already made up."

We need more thoughtful, intelligent, and insightful people, like you, around A2K, so I'm very happy you've joined us, and I certainly hope you will continue to participate in discussions.



0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 03:51 pm
@Foofie,
I think it began quite "earlier" than you suggest.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 04:29 pm
@panzade,
I think this issue is what most fence-sitters are waiting on - the contract language.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 04:37 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I think this issue is what most fence-sitters are waiting on - the contract language


Yes the contract language is not a matter of public record to date and even that is not the end of the issue as a court will have to rule that the clauses being used to force the sell of the team is enforceable in this case.

Somehow, I question that a court will uphold such powers at least in this case.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 05:53 pm
Quote:


http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2014/05/11/polls-show-support-shifting-towards-sterling-and-against-silver-as-public-support-for-free-speech/

Polls Show Support Shifting For Sterling And Against Silver As Public Supports Free Speech
Comment Now Follow Comments
NBA commissioner Adam Silver does not have the majority of people behind him any more.

Shortly after the commissioner announced his penalties for the racist comments made by Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling that were illegally taped and released to the public, everyone seemed to be supporting Silver.

TNT’s “The Inside the NBA” crew of Charles Barkley, Kenny Smith and Shaquille O’Neal applauded Silver’s decision to ban Sterling from the league for life, and every NBA owner supported the commissioner. NBA legend and Los Angeles Dodgers minority owner Magic Johnson tweeted: “Commissioner Silver showed great leadership in banning LA Clippers owner Donald Sterling for life. The public at large also was behind Silver. “On May 2nd, the New York Times jumped out of the gate with a poll that showed 54% felt Sterling’s punishment was acceptable.

But then the polling results began to shift in a big way. A CNN/ORC International poll released on May 5th showed that 47% of the public supported a forced sale of the team, while 50% were against it. Also on May 5th, a Rasmussen poll showed that only 38% believe Sterling should be forced to sell the Clippers. This running poll by HLN has 57% backing Sterling.

I do not think people have softened on how racist Sterling’s remarks were. I think they have started to realize what, exactly, Silver is proposing: the forced sale of private property solely because of an illegally taped conversation made in the privacy of the person’s home. And I do not believe most Americans want to live in that type of society.
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 06:21 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I think this issue is what most fence-sitters are waiting on - the contract language.

Well, it's also the NBA constitution that addresses the issue of when the sale of team can be forced, and that constitution, in full, has been posted online, so it is publicly available.

The legalities of this situation are quite complex, and really beyond the ability of anyone posting in this thread to fully analyze. And the NBA lawyers certainly know more about the legitimacy and legal foundation for what they are doing than anyone posting in this thread. So, speculating here, in this thread, about any eventual outcome legally isn't very meaningful at all, and I'm not sure that "fence-sitters" will be convinced by the revelation of any more NBA documents, because no one, who is a thinking person, is claiming the NBA is taking a totally legally unjustified action against Sterling, given the rules they operate by, and that govern their organization. Owning a team franchise is not to be mistaken with owning totally "private property"--it's very much subject to the conditions imposed by the NBA, and the self-interests of the other team owners and the NBA.

I think there is no choice but to wait and see how this plays out when, and if, this plays out in the courts. And, regardless of eventual outcome, it seems pretty clear why the NBA has taken the steps it already has, and why they will likely take more, to separate Donald Sterling from their association. I'm not sure there is any need to take sides on this one. Other than possible legal technicalities, of which we are not yet aware, why shouldn't the NBA be able to act in it's own best self-interest by banning, and trying to get rid of, a team owner whose now public biased views and attitudes are already negatively affecting and negatively impacting them and their sport. Does anyone have to take sides to understand what's going on here?
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 06:29 pm
@firefly,
No one on this thread has a right to give their opinion about this subject. Speculating is meaningless! And stop taking sides!






/jeez Feel free to stop responding to me and my speculating.
Buttermilk
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 06:31 pm
David why should I tell people on this forum about myself when I'm already figured out as described by BillRM? Forget that I'm a graduate student who holds a 3.9 GPA forget that I also have a full-time job, pay taxes, have my own house, let's forget all of that! I'm just an angry black man...

I will tell you what has always frustrated me about white people even those at work I've befriended. Whites take the worse of us (African-Americans) and then ask me "why do black people do this? Why do black people do that?" As if I can clue them in the totality of "black behavior."

In most of my adult life, white people ask the wrong questions. You cannot expect one individual to explain the behavior of other people. I cannot explain why some black men commit crimes or become absentee fathers. These are issues I cannot answer because they don't relate to my experience so me being the individual, cannot answer for the misdeeds of another.

But what bothers me more than this are whites who claim to have no issues with race, but remain silent when the likes of BILLRM or HAWKEYE make racial generalizations that are not only unfair, unsupported, but inherently racist. As of recent, firefly is the only white person (forgive me if I misappropriate the wrong ethnicity to you) that is speaking out against this nonsense.

To complete this let me add a lasting emphasized point of view (TURNING CAPS ON): WITH EXCEPTION TO FIREFLY

HOW DARE ANY OF YOU WHITES IN THIS THREAD CAN SIT THERE AND CLAIM TO NOT BE RACIST OR HAVE RACIAL PREJUDICES YET REMAIN SILENT WHILE THE LIKES OF BILLRM AND HAWKEYE MAKE BLANKETED STATEMENTS ABOUT BLACKS? YOUR INTENTIONAL SILENCE MAKE YOU AS CULPABLE AS THEY ARE BECAUSE YOU KNOW RACIST BLANKETED STATEMENTS ARE WRONG YET YOU REMAIN SILENT.

SO THE NEXT TIME JESSE JACKSON OR AL SHARPTON OR ANY RACIAL EVENT THAT HAPPENS WHERE YOU DENOTE HYPOCRISY AND THE IDLE BEHAVIOR OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY REMEMBER THIS THREAD AND THE SILENCE OF YOUR VOICE IN THE MIDST OF BILLRM AND HAWKEYE'S RACIST GENERALIZATIONS.....

Caps off....
firefly
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 06:43 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
No one on this thread has a right to give their opinion about this subject. Speculating is meaningless! And stop taking sides!

So now you're implying I have no right to my opinions either? Laughing

That's a childish response on your part, that really doesn't consider what I said in my last post.

People, including me, are free to offer all sorts of opinions, but essentially this is a matter for the NBA to resolve, in their own way, for their own reasons. We're all outsiders just looking in at their world and the way it operates--but it's their world, we're really not a part of it. It's the other team owners who'll have the final say on whether to force the sale of the Clippers--and they'll decide that on the basis of their own self-interest.
Lash
 
  4  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 06:51 pm
@Buttermilk,
That's bogus and ridiculous. People on this thread don't see every exchange - nor are they the apologists for the white race or its many cock-eyed members - something that seems QUITE similar to your very recent claim.
Quote:
You cannot expect one individual to explain the behavior of other people.

Don't expect it of us, either.
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 06:59 pm
@firefly,
Just shooting your **** back at you.

0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 07:00 pm
@Buttermilk,
Buttermilk wrote:
David why should I tell people on this forum about myself
when I'm already figured out as described by BillRM?
Well, not everyone in A2K
is eager to take his word for everything.



Buttermilk wrote:
Forget that I'm a graduate student who holds a 3.9 GPA forget that I also have a full-time job, pay taxes, have my own house, let's forget all of that! I'm just an angry black man...

I will tell you what has always frustrated me about white people even those at work I've befriended.
OK.

Buttermilk wrote:
Whites take the worse of us (African-Americans) and then ask me
"why do black people do this? Why do black people do that?"
As if I can clue them in the totality of "black behavior."

In most of my adult life, white people ask the wrong questions.
You cannot expect one individual to explain the behavior of other people.
Agreed. We speculate, tho.
Which side did u favor in the George Zimmerman trial,
if u don t mind saying ?





Buttermilk wrote:
I cannot explain why some black men commit crimes or become absentee fathers.
These are issues I cannot answer because they don't relate to my experience
so me being the individual, cannot answer for the misdeeds of another.
That makes sense to ME.


Buttermilk wrote:
But what bothers me more than this are whites who claim to have
no issues with race, but remain silent when the likes of BILLRM
or HAWKEYE make racial generalizations that are not only unfair,
unsupported, but inherently racist. As of recent, firefly is the only
white person (forgive me if I misappropriate the wrong ethnicity to you)
that is speaking out against this nonsense.
People dont always speak or act how u think thay shud.
I imagine that this is also true among blacks; yes ??
Not everyone agrees with u or with me.



Buttermilk wrote:
To complete this let me add a lasting emphasized point of view (TURNING CAPS ON): WITH EXCEPTION TO FIREFLY

HOW DARE ANY OF YOU WHITES IN THIS THREAD CAN SIT THERE AND CLAIM TO NOT BE RACIST OR HAVE RACIAL PREJUDICES YET REMAIN SILENT WHILE THE LIKES OF BILLRM AND HAWKEYE MAKE BLANKETED STATEMENTS ABOUT BLACKS? YOUR INTENTIONAL SILENCE MAKE YOU AS CULPABLE AS THEY ARE BECAUSE YOU KNOW RACIST BLANKETED STATEMENTS ARE WRONG YET YOU REMAIN SILENT.

SO THE NEXT TIME JESSE JACKSON OR AL SHARPTON OR ANY RACIAL EVENT THAT HAPPENS WHERE YOU DENOTE HYPOCRISY AND THE IDLE BEHAVIOR OF THE BLACK COMMUNITY REMEMBER THIS THREAD AND THE SILENCE OF YOUR VOICE IN THE MIDST OF BILLRM AND HAWKEYE'S RACIST GENERALIZATIONS.....

Caps off....
FOR THE RECORD:
I have never commented upon "the idle behavior of the black community",
nor do I have such commentary in my plans.





David
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 07:02 pm
@Buttermilk,
You made a very good statement, and I understand your resentments. I must say that I have questioned black associates about the criminal actions of other blacks.

These associates could have just as well asked me about the actions of white mass murderers like George Bush.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 May, 2014 07:02 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
People on this thread don't see every exchange
That 's very true.
I ofen take a lite-hearted approach.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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