Thu 3 Apr, 2014 04:52 am
A little over 12 months ago my (now ex) wife and I mutually decided to enter the swinging scene. This decision was not led by either party, but rather sparked out of a simple discussion in the bath which led to actively searching online. We eventually met another couple whom had a rather similar long term relationship to ours and were at a similar level of curiosity in the swinging scene. When we met, her and I seriously clicked. It was insane, our childhoods, ideology, interests, everything. There was not a single thing about each other we didn't enjoy. My ex and her counterpart, weren't so lucky in the bonding scene, they failed miserably sexually (though continued to work at it) however, my progressing friendship and extreme success sexually quickly outpaced my ex and her counterpart. this ensued for nearly six months, my ex growing frustrated at both my success and her failure and my interest in this other woman that continued to grow. Needless to say, she decided to end the marriage rather than stopping the swinging which in its own right was a sign of the very unstable and crazy woman that I failed to see before we even started to swing, as in her leaving enabled the rose colored glasses to come off and to see her for what she truly was, insane. I don't hold this view on my own either, many family and friends had told me they were glad she had left and tried to tell me during our relationship, but i was too blind to see.
Anyway, on the other end of the separation, this other woman , her husband and I decided to continue our friendship and sexual endeavors as a 3some, cutting my ex out of their lives, and mine mostly. Keeping in mind that everything has been consensual and agreed by all parties and that it is common knowledge that my ex was crazy.
This is where the 'fun' begins....
Her and I continue to bond and develop a great love and affection and care for one another, her husband is OK with this and we're all happy (he has a fetish of watching his wife with another man) and we had great sex, as a twosome and a threesome. As we grew closer, her sister passed away whom i had never met, but she asked me to go to her funeral to give her support which was interstate. This is where things start to go a bit awry...
Whilst we're all away, he starts to get funny toward me and my interactions with her, we have an argument which puts a sour taste on the impending funeral, this time passes and we all fly home, she is ever grateful of my time and support as I stood up for her when her and his family was pressuring her about quickly going through her sisters belongings for which I argued that her and I stay and extra day to give her the time she needed to get closure and to adequately pack the items she wished to keep. He decided to fly home early out of frustration and fatigue and her and I were left behind to do things in her own time.
After this, there were no 3somes, he began to grow weary of me however allowed us to continue to have sex as a twosome. This inevitably brought us closer together and we both admitted that we were in love with each other. Neither of us had any intention of ending their marriage and were happy with the status quo, knowing that our now 'relationship' as we termed it, had an end date and that the marriage would always come first if and when they decided to have children etc.
Fast forward to now and things have really turned upside down. He is now making assertions of me as a person that are completely incorrect, that I am needy, am hard work (sometimes I can be, I am emotional at times, freely admitted) but so is she as well, we are yin and yang. I have dedicated so much of my time in assisting them around their house, their garden, so much. I am rather handy where he is not and she really appreciates this.
She would often say that if it was her and I that met first the outcome would of been different, and that if her husband and her had met now, they wouldn't pursue each other because of conflicts in their personalities, however she is loyal to him and the life they've built together and I am still under no illusion that this is only temporary, its fun (for us), we love laugh and cry, but things are getting very hard as she's now feeling torn because he is wanting it to end (badly, which would eradicate any residual friendship with her and I and she is of the opinion that she will not let her husband dictate who her friends are), yet she is still pushing to keep both of us and have it finish on good terms where her and I can remain friends. It is around this time that I learn that he has had rather aggressive tenancies that he has exerted even prior to us meeting, he has grabbed her, pushed and shoved her during arguments and plays mind games with her and had her believe that this treatment was just part of her marriage, that while he treated her good when he was happy, it allowed for some roughness when they fought. This really began to degrade my opinion of him, and i recently found out that after it was arranged for her to come and stay at my house for the night, that he had wanted a blowjob from her the night before she came around, but she had fallen asleep in his lap (before any oral had commenced) she had no idea this was his intention so to her surprise, she was awoken to him instantly cracking the shits with her which entered into another shouty argument which followed with him threatening to give her a slapping if she didn't shut up.
Naturally, as anyone would agree (i hope) that this kind of behavior is intolerable, its abusive in addition to the pushing, the shoving and is only a precursor for things to only get worse. It is because of my speaking up and telling her how wrong this treatment is that she has actually realised that she should never be treated this way and that my advice to her is to seriously consider her place in the relationship. Which is a very hard place for me to assert that because, inevitably, their separation would eventuate into a commencement of a new relationship between us, so i feel that any advice that I give (the same advice I would give ANY of my other friends in a similar situation) is automatically bias because of where I would potentially gain. We have talked endlessly around the outcomes associated with this behavior and his separate behavior toward me which we both acknowledge as disgusting but she is committed to her marriage, which I applaud her strength for, but I have grown very very hateful of him for the way he has and continues to treat her and me. She will not let him dictate whom she can be friends with otherwise she would leave, she will not tolerate any more aggressive behavior, otherwise she will leave, and she does not want to give up her love and care with me either because as she says it, she's addicted to me.
I have told her that he does not deserve someone as wonderful and as beautiful as she is for the way he treats her, she asked me if I deserved her, I said maybe, maybe not, what do you think? she just looked at me and nodded. She still loves her husband very much but loves me a great deal too. If it were a happy loving marriage where she wasn't being treated badly, I would retreat away and put their marriage first, but I am in the already involved position of seeing him for the behind doors abusive person he can be that no one else sees and I cant bring myself to walk away, but to help her realise for herself that the way she is being treated is very wrong, regardless of the circumstances of our affection (remember he was aggressive prior to her meeting me, I just was able to show her it was so wrong, I've unfortunately been the witness to my father bashing my mother and his other partners so I have a very strong aversion and hate to treating women this way) I just want to stand up for her and give her what she rightfully deserves, if that's me then I can live with their marriage ending just so she has an opportunity to be happier, but I am stuck, what should I do?
Do I just ride this out with her as the supportive friend that I am and continually reassure and stand up for her to let her make her own decision (even if that is to leave her husband which she would inevitably end up being with me)
Or am I in way too deep and this should really be none of my business and step aside and let them figure it out on their own, knowing that he is incredibly manipulative and could very well bend her will to his own (which he has done in the past by making her believe the aggressive behavior is normal) - ?
I bet no one has seen a question like this... :/
Step away from the trainwreck.
Why does she want to keep both of you? 'Cause it's easier. It's cheaper. And she gets whatever she wants, including, apparently, a free handyman. This is an awesome situation.
As for whether she really is being abused by him, I am thinking it's a clever thing to tell you, to keep playing out the fishing line on you. I am not saying that it's possible, but it seems like the drama was ebbing or you were starting to walk and then suddenly she told you that there was violence in the marriage.
Why didn't she tell you this earlier?
But be that as it may, look at this objectively. If she really is being abused, and is still considering staying with this man, then she has issues that you, Mister Handyman, cannot fix. Feel free to suggest to her that she should go to a shelter, but then back off unless you can see that she is in physical danger.
I am well aware that you are not a professional, etc., and that if she really is being abused then this is a hazard. But we have no real way of knowing this, and she has a motivation to keep you, but not necessarily a motivation to be 100% truthful with you.
Thank you Jespah for your response,
I guess in reply, your comments and questions are absolutely fair ones to make given what detail I initially gave, and points I didn't consider to address in the opening statement (albeit very long) as I simply didn't consider them whilst writing, thank you for raising them.
My understanding is that she get's the best of both worlds, someone who is handy like me, and whatever it is from him that she gets too, as I said, I'm under no illusion as to the lifespan of this arrangement and am emotionally prepared for it to come to a close when it does. I'm also gaining out of this too, I'm getting what I want, a close friendship (separate from the arrangement) and really insane sex, I also enjoy being practical and helping people I care about, that's how i get gratitude by seeing other people happy from my actions.
However, it's certainly not easy anymore, its rather difficult, tiring and time consuming for both of us. The arrangement and our bond was never the issue (though some may not understand how or why it exists or works), it is how her husband has started to change how he views me, on the back of some recent events.
As for the abuse and his 'roughness' in the past, I've been aware that he has certainly had episodes in the past and I have seen them interacting and him getting overly rough and her having to pull him up by saying what he is doing hurts, perhaps she was playing them down at the time because of her belief that it was acceptable behavior.
My suspicions began to grow further when I had found out that he had forcibly twisted her nipple (apparently playfully) (a point that I didn't mention) which caused her some great discomfort when we were together in the days after it occurred, I told him, very strongly, that this kind of behavior was completely appalling and not on, he, in the moment agreed that he had stepped over the line and it was left there as a more severe, but isolated and single incident. It wasn't until up in the very recent days when I had heard of the threat to give her a slapping that I really lost my ****. On my advice to her, repeatedly, that the kind of behavior is unacceptable, she has since confronted him about it and told him it stops of she leaves, my fear is that she is too naive to really grasp the seriousness of his actions and will just give in and be soft when he inevitably steps over the line again.
Regardless of the situation, I do care a lot for my friend and do not want her to be in the position of leaving AFTER getting hit. I know its ultimately her choice to make but from my own experiences growing up, I really don't want her to make the mistakes I saw my mother make by falling into the same trap.
She's a good girl and doesn't deserve the treatment, some of which I witnessed, but wasn't able to gauge the severity of at the time.
Again, thank you for your input, it's appreciated and i can certainly understand where your assertions have come from
You are deluding yourself. They have a dysfunctional relationship - but it continues to be a relationship.
You are on the outside, and have always been. In fact, the conflict and excitement that you bring to this sicko scene is part of their ruse - on you.
She's not going to leave him. He can do whatever he wants with her. You will be replaced when you leave, because that's what these kind of people do.
You need to get out of this unstable three-some game - ASAP
Sorry to be so brutal - but wake up, dear.
Get a real vision of what this is.
Thanks for your response.
I am under no doubt that their relationship is unorthodox and unconventional and their inclusion of me in their marital choice is odd.
I know for a fact I'm on the outer, as is any friend to a married couple, but if you knew one of your friends was being mentally or emotionally abused, wouldn't you feel compelled to do something? If at least to raise the awareness that something wrong was happening and that they at least had the support and information to know they were actually being treated badly and could do something about it if they chose to?
My main concern is the aggressive tendencies that her husband has toward her, I fear will translate into physical harm.
I consider her one of my best friends, and I likewise to her, that's why this is so hard to just let go.
I wasn't expecting butterfly responses either, so I appreciate the brutality
It takes TWO for an abusive relationship to continue. People stay together for the oddest of reasons - finances, sex, unhealthy dynamics, kids, social stigma, etc. etc.
She could leave him. Any healthy woman would have left him. What keeps her THERE?
She could be in your safe, secure arms. Her life could be better. So why does she stay?
I say she stays because - deep down - that's where she's going to stay.
Stop defending her and justifying her behavior. Tell her that you are leaving and ending this three-some relationship, and - if she makes a break from him - you will be there. But don't count on it.
But beware, she will want to swing again, with another man. Because that's the way she is.
Take off the rose colored glasses and see this as it is.