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Confused by this relationship: Can you get it clearly?

 
 
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 09:44 am
" She was his first cousin maternally and his second cousin paternally"?
Looks like his mother and his father were themselves cousins?
Could you get it crystal clear?

Context:

Einstein married Elsa Löwenthal on 2 June 1919, after having had a relationship with her since 1912. She was his first cousin maternally and his second cousin paternally. In 1933, they emigrated to the United States. In 1935, Elsa Einstein was diagnosed with heart and kidney problems and died in December 1936.[36]
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 1,280 • Replies: 16
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 01:40 pm
First cousins are the children of two siblings. Second cousins are the children of two first cousins. Elsa's mother was the sister of Albert's mother, thus they were first cousins via their mothers. Elsa's father was the nephew of Albert's paternal grandfather. Thus they were second cousins via their fathers. Albert Einstein's parents were not cousins.


PUNKEY
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 01:46 pm
Albert and Elsa's mothers were sisters. Their fathers were first cousins.
0 Replies
 
Joeblow
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 08:16 pm
I think Elsa's mother and father were first cousins. Not Albert's mother and father.

But Albert's mother was was also first cousins with Elsa's father (and a sister to Elsa's mother).

I had to diagram it. I think that's right. It's a little confusing!

The first common ancestor is Albert and Elsa's grandfather.
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 08:58 pm
@Joeblow,
Ok no that's wrong. The common ancestor has to be a great grandparent:

Quote:
The second cousin connection is actually quite simple: the common ancestor is a great grandparent,
- See more at: http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/family-history-chart.html#sthash.N6t934lu.dpuf

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 09:02 pm
@Joeblow,
Joeblow wrote:

I think Elsa's mother and father were first cousins. Not Albert's mother and father.

But Albert's mother was was also first cousins with Elsa's father (and a sister to Elsa's mother).

I had to diagram it. I think that's right. It's a little confusing!

The first common ancestor is Albert and Elsa's grandfather.



Cool!
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 09:02 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

First cousins are the children of two siblings. Second cousins are the children of two first cousins. Elsa's mother was the sister of Albert's mother, thus they were first cousins via their mothers. Elsa's father was the nephew of Albert's paternal grandfather. Thus they were second cousins via their fathers. Albert Einstein's parents were not cousins.



Informative!
Thank you Contrex.
0 Replies
 
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 09:10 pm
@oristarA,
Ori, I should have made it clear I wasn't certain. I hope someone with a firm grip on it comes by. It's more than a little confusing to me too, and I'm not sure I'm right.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Mar, 2014 09:35 pm
@Joeblow,
Joeblow wrote:

Ori, I should have made it clear I wasn't certain. I hope someone with a firm grip on it comes by. It's more than a little confusing to me too, and I'm not sure I'm right.


Okay. Contrex, could you please confirm the assertion "The first common ancestor is Albert and Elsa's grandfather"?
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 03:57 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Okay. Contrex, could you please confirm the assertion "The first common ancestor is Albert and Elsa's grandfather"?


The assertion is incorrect.



0 Replies
 
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 05:55 am
@Joeblow,
Joeblow wrote:

Ok no that's wrong. The common ancestor has to be a great grandparent:

Quote:
The second cousin connection is actually quite simple: the common ancestor is a great grandparent,
- See more at: http://www.irish-genealogy-toolkit.com/family-history-chart.html#sthash.N6t934lu.dpuf

0 Replies
 
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 06:04 am
This might shed some light:

http://www.einstein-website.de/z_biography/family_tree.html
0 Replies
 
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 06:09 am
Even better:

Quote:
Albert Einstein's second wife was Elsa Einstein, whose mother Fanny Koch was the sister of Albert's mother, and whose father Rudolf Einstein was the son of Raphael Einstein, a brother of Albert's paternal grandfather. Thus Albert and Elsa were first cousins through their mothers and second cousins through their fathers.[2]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_family
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 06:26 am
There now. Are we clear? lol

Argggh. When I tried diagraming again, I came up with my first answer again.

I need coffee.


0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 07:39 am
@Joeblow,
To say it simple in one sentence: Elsa’s and Albert’s mothers were sisters, their fathers were cousins.
Joeblow
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 08:26 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I'm trying to figure out where I went wrong. I think I attributed the Grandfather to Albert's mother, instead of Albert's father. I also accepted the premise that "2nd cousin" was right, but now I need to look up first cousin, once removed.

Or not Razz
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 29 Mar, 2014 08:41 am
@oristarA,
http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk17/frankapisa/Einstein.jpg


I asked him. He said, "I cannot figure it out myself. But I loved her, so who cares!"
0 Replies
 
 

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