Wishful Thinking Via Imagery

I guess no one wanted to weigh in here. I have noticed that even among the conservatives, there are not too many religious fundamentalist on A2K, could be wrong though.

Also could be any explaining would fall on deaf ears as being apologists.

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

I guess no one wanted to weigh in here. I have noticed that even among the conservatives, there are not too many religious fundamentalist on A2K, could be wrong though.

Also could be any explaining would fall on deaf ears as being apologists.

That's nonsense. The image is kind of funny in an obvious pointing out the hypocrisy of the far right and of Sarah Palin. I thumbed it up. But It doesn't necessarily deserve a new thread nor call for a comment. Do you really think that Sarah Palin is going to find this thread and suddenly have an epiphany and see that she's been living a horrible life? This isn't going to change any fundamentalist's mind (here or outside of a2k). It might do the opposite and concrete their shitty belief system. So what's the point and writing merely complementary post?

To simplify: Weigh in? What's to exactly weigh in about?

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@tsarstepan,

I suppose people could weigh in on the merits (or lack of one) having God being involved in our laws. Or they could in on the merits of the cartoon itself. Someone could say that the new testament does away with the physical punishments of the law but that would open all kinds of different cans of worms, someone could also argue that usurping authority involves worship in the church since that was the context in which it is taken.

Or people could just take it as it meant and give it a laugh which is what you obviously mean, I agree, I was getting too theological minded, I slip into that sometimes. I used to belong to a very interesting theological board and I guess I still miss it as I haven't found one since like it.

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@revelette2,

The New Testament does away with the physical punishments of the old law, but instead promises eternal damnation and the fiery pits of Hell. Nice. I guess someone forgot to inform Torquemada among others Wink

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@blueveinedthrobber,

Actually that's not true. In the King James version, Matthew, Chapter 5, verses 17 to 20:

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

So all the ugliness of the Old Testament is still with us. I'd sure like to see video of Sarah's husband beating the snot out of her.

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@Setanta,

I agree Set, I was replying (sarcastically) to the post above mine by Revelette. I wasn't clear on that

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@Setanta,

True, Jesus fulfilled the law, bringing us into the new kingdom, which is a spiritual kingdom, so now we follow the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law. Jesus did not stone the woman accused of fornication, just told her to go and sin no more and told the others who was without sin to cast the first stone. No one was left after he looked up. (I assume you know where all this can found since you found the first one)

(intended as stating a doctrine, not in a debate on whether all of it is myth or not)

BTW. I don't agree we should base our laws on the Bible for a host of reasons, both religiously, political and plain common sense.

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@revelette2,

Where in scripture does it say that "Jesus fulfilled the law?"

Don't make **** up.

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Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. The law was fulfilled on the day he died on the cross. He told the thief as an answer about the kingdom that he would be with him in Paradise. LK 24:43

Quote:

The Crucifixion
…42And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!" 43And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

1 Reply

@revelette2,

revelette2 wrote:

Jesus did not stone the woman accused of fornication, just told her to go and sin no more and told the others who was without sin to cast the first stone. No one was left after he looked up.

What if I disagree that fornication is a bad thing in the first place? (Let alone a capital crime.) What if I think the woman hadn't done anything that needed the community's forgiveness? It certainly looks as if I'm still on the wrong side of the Bible.

Or conversely, consider the part where "the law" says that someone who beats a slave so hard he dies after a day or two, "he shall not be punished; for he is his property." What if I disagree with that? What if I think, as do you I'm sure, that slavery is not okay in the first place and that the beating makes it worse? What if we think that the slaveholder should be punished rather than forgiven in any case, not just the case where the slave dies before "a day or two" have passed? In this case we're both on the wrong side of Jesus on at least two counts.

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@Thomas,

When Jesus was asked about divorce from the men who was tempting him, he said that God tolerated it in times past but from the beginning it was not so. So I think without getting in too deep (don't know too much about the particular issue you bring up, would have study on it) laws surrounding slaves to make it manageable for the times.

Quote:

Matthew 19: 1 And it came to pass, that when Jesus had finished these sayings, he departed from Galilee, and came into the coasts of Judea beyond Jordan;

2 and great multitudes followed him; and he healed them there.

3 ¶ The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for every cause?

4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, Gen. 1.27 ; 5.2

5 and said,

For this cause shall a man leave father and mother,
and shall cleave to his wife:
and they twain shall be one flesh Gen. 2.24 ?

6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away? Deut. 24.1-4 · Mt. 5.31

8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Mt. 5.32 · 1 Cor. 7.10, 11

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@revelette2,

Excuse me, but you didn't answer my question. Where in scripture does it say that he fulfilled the law? I'm not interested in your goofy, serlf-serving interpretation. I'm interested in what scripture says.

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@revelette2,

Oh, I agree that the Bible says adultery is bad. I just disagree that adultery is bad.

A frequently-recurring shtick in the Bible, beginning with Sodom and Gomorrah, is for God to inflict grievous punishments for vague or trivial offenses, followed by ostentatious (if usually partial) forgiveness. One example of this is the scene you described, where Jesus talks the upstanding citizens out of stoning the adultress. In my opinion, reasonable readers of the Bible should not play along with this shtick. Instead they should just face up to the fact that the Bible is wrong sometimes --- about facts, but also about ethics.

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You must have missed it...

Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

to fulfill what?.....the Law.

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@Thomas,

Anything that hurts another....such as adultery, is bad, is wrong, and isn't okay just because you think that it is; unless you are the author and authority on morality.

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@Setanta,

I'm not interested in your snide remarks, but we all don't always get what we wish for do we?

In any case, here it is, which does require some reasoning as the bible is not a simplified book.

Jesus said not one jot or tittle shall pass away until all is fulfilled. Mat.5:18 Jesus's last words on the cross before he died was "it is finished." John 19:30 . Jesus was sent by God to fulfill the law and the prophets and he did so when he died on the cross, so now we worship God in spirit through Christ Jesus, taking away sin and death.

Romans 8: 1Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,…

(I realize not everyone agrees with all or any of this; its fine with me)

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For Jane and Revelette--neither of you has provided a scriptural citation which unambiguously states that your boy Jesus fulfilled the law. That is quite apart from the issue that no copies of scripture exist that are older than the early fourth century. Three hundred years is plenty of time to work on your text to get it to say what you want it to say--and yet, no scriptural citation unambiguously states that the putative Jesus fulfilled the law.

Don't piss down my leg and tell me it's raining.

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@Thomas,

Thomas wrote:

. . . the Bible is wrong sometimes --- about facts, but also about ethics.

That is worth repeating.

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@Setanta,

Jesus said he came to fulfill the law, on the cross he said it was finished. What do you think he meant by "it is finished?" Why do you think he died on the cross at all if not to die for our sins? If he died for our sins, why would we need to keep the law and kill bulls and lambs or stone sinners to death? Our sins are forgiven by the blood of Jesus Christ, not by stoning or the blood of animals. (at least that is the doctrine I believe)

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Wishful Thinking Via Imagery

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