It's not too late for the Dems to draft somebody else

How so eoe?

I support Nadar on some of his platform and oppose him on others - I oppose him on too many issues to vote for him. But all in all, he seems to be a good guy.

I love the idea of breaking down the two party monopoly/dichotomy in the US. And Nader has been one of those rare individuals who has actually managed to improve conditions.

But I agree with the quote above...that he would continue his quest for office at this point in time may have a consequence which will work against all he's previously fought for. I find his thinking inexplicable.

Bull!

Ralph represents a number of us. He has held to his principles in spite of pathetic personal attacks based on partisan politics. He is a very clear voice for reason and values.

He continues to be respected by those of us who are not willing to prostitute our ideals for political expediency.

One more thing!

Please stop blaming Nader for the fact that Kerry is a spineless buffoon and the Democrats are directionless.

I will not vote for Kerry. This has nothing to do with Nader. Kerry has turned into little more than a Bush Lite and doesn't deserve my vote. I don't see how any self-respecting progressive could vote for either Kerry or Bush.

Why do you all want to take away the one respectable candidate left in this race?

A little warm this morning, ebrown?

As regards your first sentence...I didn't/don't.

As regards your last sentence here, you already know what I'd answer.

To correct eoe,

Nader is continuing a lifetime of honorable service with selfless service to idealism and principle.

I am a bit heated. It really gets me upset when people who are willing to sell their souls for partisan politics unleash such vicious personal attacks against the people with the courage to stick to their values.

ebrown

You know it might not be quite so clear, yes?

If this administration gets another term, and if the RNC and associates continue their fairly scary program to dominate both houses, the presidency, and the judiciary for the next decade or further (as a number of them have been quite explicit in stating, and as they have made surprising progress towards), then Nader's goals are in deep jeopardy.

Kerry just got the kiss of death, Gore is now contributing to his campaign...

blatham,

I understand your argument. You are saying that it is worth it for progressives to drop our ideals for this election because Bush is so bad. You include appointments to the Supreme court as a particular danger and a reason that we must vote for Kerry. This is a fine argument.

But I don't buy it.

The problem is that a vote for Kerry is not just a vote against Bush. It is a vote for Kerry. Kerry lost my vote because of his stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that I find quite dangerous and offensive. This was comgined by tepid support for tax cuts, support for the war and lukewarm non-support for the rights of homsexuals to marry.

I simply will not support him.

The dangers you state of another Bush term are real -- if perhaps overstated.

The dangers of mindless votes for Kerry from progressives, who are willing to bend over at the request of a lost Democratic party that ignores their core values in a blantant cowardly attempt to buy votes, are just as real.

Progressive voters can not allow the Democrats (or any party who desires their support) them to squelch their voice.

I will not vote for Kerry.

I am always dismayed when people put their votes behind one issue only, be it abortion or Israel or prayer in school. There's so much else that's also important, and sometimes more important.

I guess I agree with you suzy. It seems like everyone here is putting their votes behind one issue.

In my last post I listed four reasons why I Kerry doesn't represent my views (and there are more) Israel was just the one that put me over the edge.

No one has given me any reason why I should vote for Kerry that did not include the word "Bush".

ebrown

I'm with you on much of this. The whole spectrum has shifted so far right that the Dems have lost much of their soul. That's somewhat true here in Canada as well, and England obviously.

I have a set of (admittedly theoretical and somewhat foggy) notions as to why this wide-based shift has happened, and though I think Nader understand this better than most, it is, as you understand, a disappointingly practical position I hold now for the next election.

Brad is too busy conquering Troy.

(Now if someone aims a deft arrow at the Bush Achilles Heel.)

Deft? The fellow has a heel wide enough for dairy cows to walk through abreast.

The fact that Nader would stage a campaign under such dire circumstances strikes me as the epitome of selfishness with little regard for this country or it's people. Don't lump me with Kerry's supporters. Please. I'm still waiting for someone alive and kicking to come in and electrify things but it just doesn't look like that's gonna happen so...I'll vote for Kerry because he has the best chance to get Mr. Bush out of office. That's an unfortunate fact.

eoe, It strikes you wrong.

Kerry and the Democratic party are a cause of these "dire circumstances" of which you speak.

You willingness to vote for Kerry as the "best chance to get Mr. Bush out of office" is exactly why we are in this mess. The unfortunate fact is that because of this attitude the Democrats think that enough of us will support such pathetic candidates. They don't need to stand for anything.

Saying that Nader is acting out of selfishness without regard for this country or its people is pure partisan bullcrap. Does anyone really believe that the interests of the Democratic party are the interestes of the country? The Dems would say it is the other way around if they weren't so out of touch.

Nader is acting out of principle. He believe that progressive thinkers should have a voice. He is representing us Americans who don't feel that either party speaks for us.

Personal attacks on Nader, who is one of the only Americans who speaks a consistant message of principles, are shameful and partisan.

You may disagree with him, but understand that many of us are grateful that we can abstain from the Democrats act of political prostitution and still have a vote that counts as a call for real change.

Can Naders' people vote Bush out of office? Are there enough of you to do that?

ebrown,
As one who once voted for Perot, I can relate to your wanting to register a vote for change. And perhaps, with your being in Mass. the vote will not be so close for that state that the Nader vote will hurt the Dems.

When it comes down to states that are up for grabs, then this is far too important an election to be wasting votes for principle. I don't know whether Kerry will be good or not, but I do know that Bush is horrible.

I voted for Perot as well, seeking change, and was all set and ready to vote for Warren Beatty four years ago, at just the hint of a possible run for office. We're absolutely desparate for change.