If Kerry lied, would it matter?

I guess Republican lies, even made up ones, are serious while others can be dismissed as inconsequential.

now thats about as over the top as it gets, I do think the economy is stabilizing and may yet see a solid recovery but yikes "astounding rate?"

revel, I feel your pain but the ongoing stream of news and data just doesn't bear out the hypothesis presented by your personal anecdote. I'm sorry you find your particular individual situation inconvenient. I would not presume to challenge your own assessment of your own condition. Your argument, though based thereon, however, is unsupported by the overwhelming preponderance of evidence. Its not all about you ... there's a bigger world out there, like it or not.

Yes, just finishing up Alterman's now. Then Woodwards, then Suskind's (O'Neil). I'm rather behind on my reading, with about five NY Review of Books on my bed table (this is a particularly good publication, not merely for the quality of essays/reviews, but as guide to quality books in those areas where one has interest), and I'm now about two years behind on the anthropology works I used to keep up with, etc etc...there's just too damned much that's interesting. However, I'll put my other interests on hold and set my handsome shoulders to the task of saving timber from himself.

Thanks, blatham. I dunno what I'd do without you.

It's what we socialist canadian mennonites are here for, old friend.

Over the top? How would you interpret the following Dys? CBS is hardly a GOP propaganda org.

First-quarter GDP another scorcher

By Rex Nutting, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 6:49 PM ET April 23, 2004


WASHINGTON (CBS.MW) -- For the third quarter in a row, U.S. economic growth has exceeded all expectations.

Following a blowout third quarter and a very strong fourth quarter, most economists expected the economy to pause just a bit in the first three months of 2004.

Instead, growth apparently accelerated, boosted by consumer spending, business investment, housing and inventory stocking.

The first estimate of first-quarter growth will be released by the Commerce Department on Thursday morning. The report is the highlight of another fairly busy week on the economic calendar.

Economists surveyed by CBS MarketWatch expect, on average, annualized growth of 5 percent in the first quarter after 4.1 percent growth in the fourth quarter and 8.2 percent in the third. See Economic Calendar.

It would be the first time in 10 years that growth exceeded 4 percent for three straight quarters.

http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid={DEBF56BE-16F3-4DD4-8E9B-69A786FC7D9D}&siteid=mktw&dist=&archive=true

Having posted that information, what do you say to John Kerry who continues to blast George Bush for creating a terrible economy?

Pay no attention to that sound, Foxfire; its just The Left squirming amidst the debris of their shattered and scattered cherished prejudices. Remember, they're the folks who made Howard Dean what he is today. Be very glad Kerry has such freinds.

um I guess it's the half-full glass problem again.
In all of 2003, GDP rose at a pace of 3.1 percent, compared with 2.2 percent in 2002. Therefore a good conservative republican can point to a near 50% increase while a non-rational illiterate would note a .9% increase. Numbers are always interesting if not always meaningful. Then again there's the DOW which for the past 3 months is flat as a pancake with bubbles. Anyone mention jobs? Personally I really want to see major improvement in the economy as I am retired and really need the investment income.

Then I would say you should get behind and support those who are hell bent on seeing that another 9/11 never happens and that corporate America continues to be reined in and compelled to tell the truth as that is where all your stock market woes lie.

Because we were invested in a lot of high risk stuff, my husband and I lost 40% of the value of our portfolio during the 9/11 induced recession but it is coming back and the outlook is good on the present course. I have so many reasons to not want John Kerry as my president, but the fact that the policies he proposes will hinder that recovery is high on the list.

btw I am not a democrat nor do I endorse Kerry

Jobs.

Last evening, a friend and I were watching (she for the first time) the wonderful Burns documentary on New York City. We were watching Part 4, and I warned her beforehand that this part included the story of the Triangle Shirtwaist Building Fire. She managed to get through this incredibly tragic and angering story with dignity. I, again, bawled.

Those teenage girls, some still children, had jobs. Twelve hours a day, seven days a week, for pennies. Doors locked on the outside (to prevent union organizers from getting in), the fire led many of them to leave their jobs...by leaping eight stories to a sickly thudding death on the sidewalks or impaled on the ironwork fence below.

The New Deal values and regulations began there, in New York, on that spring morning, as the burning bundles of young Italians and Russians and Jews thudded.

There are jobs and there are jobs. And there are real families all over the US who look at the sorts of figures and statements quoted above and wonder, "What the FUK are these people measuring?!"

Ludlow Massacre, the epitome of capitalistic values.

Are you saying that child labor and locked in factory workers are the norm in the USA now Blatham? If you aren't, what's your point?

Yup ... somewhat encouragingly so




You might wanna avoid Treasuries in that case.


Here's a conjecture; should the April figures not handily surpass the March results (and, particularly given weather conditions in the Midwest the last few weeks, they may not), the doomcriers and naysayers will hawk about "slowdown".

I can always count on Timber for the quick response and every now and then I agree.

You see what you want to see, as we all do. This is just one example of how he's decieved people (in my opinion), but I don't care if you believe it or not. Actually, if it turns out that it's all true, then so be it. Who cares. It's only one example. And this is a thread about Kerry's lies, so I'll give it up. Enjoy.

No. I'm saying that job figures can omit rather a lot of information important to those holding such 'jobs'. Where someone's job is enforced part-time at low wages for example (perhaps of a duration only up to some boundary point where the employer must pay or provide more), that person isn't going to be much impressed with quoted job figures. Or where someone who's held a rewarding and relatively lucrative job, but now, because it has been off-shored perhaps, he/she has to settle for far less, that person too will be unimpressed with government assurances that there are lotso jobs. Thus how the population votes this next election seems likely to be determined to no small degree by how many of them can't seem to get ahead, or have suffered large investment losses. The predictable rah rah from the administration and from 'market analysts' in media (the LA Times referred to Enron as 'a beehive of financially savvy companies'; Lawrence Kudlow got 50 grand from Enron and William Kristol got 100 thousand from them) will fall rather flat on the ears of the folks struggling.

That's partly why I posted as I did. Another reason was to point to the purposeful (and explicit) goal of an important and powerful segment of the modern Republican party which is to dismantle that which the New Deal legislation and values put in place. Grover Norquist gets one vote (though he'll try and influence you), but the folks in trouble get many more votes.

I think anecdotal evidence is not useful in establishing national policy. I think it does color our perception of the way things are sometimes. It is easy to imagine that the way it is in my town or my state is the way it is everywhere.

As far as the 'far right' having a goal to dismantle New Deal legislation, that is absurd. Many, including me, see how the intentions of the New Deal have been corrupted to create a segment of society that expects government to be its mother and father and take care of its every need. There are some of us who look at the mutli-trillions of dollars poured into a social welfare system that has often perpetuated the problems it was purported to address. Some of us think that continuing failed policies are not compassionate and there are better ways to go about things.

John Kerry, for instance, is practically promising the country that he can give them a Cadillac in every garage and a chicken in every pot. He can't and he won't and he knows it. Or I would hope that he knows it.

In fact, the left are now the classic conservatives in this regard the right are the classic liberals.

"The American Republic will endure until politicians realize they can bribe the people with their own money." - Alexis de Tocqueville