If Kerry lied, would it matter?

The people who don't pay tax don't make enough money to owe any! What's the problem?
Is it their fault, is it the economys fault?
The bigger problem is that we're spending way more than we take in, excepting some years in the 90's, and your commander in chief doesn't see a problem with that, since he keeps spending more, or making reasons to spend or give away more.
Complain about that.

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mesquite wrote:

[With the text on the image unreadable and no source, the graph does not tell me much. Statements like "25% of the US taxpayers contribute 51.3% of the total tax revenue" do not mean much without qualifications as to what constitutes "total tax revenue". Are payroll and other federal taxes included, or just income taxes? I would also like to see a comparison of that same 25% as a percentage of total US income.

Sorry about the graphic ... it was a screenshot pulled from another website ... looked a lot better over there. The stats and many more are available at the US IRS Tax Stats Page

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The president sends Congress his wish list, but Congress puts together and votes for the budget that the president signs. The president cannot spend a dime that Congress does not allocate to him to spend. In wartime, a country will spend more than in peace time.

Congress, however, is spending like a drunken sailor on matters unrelated to war and this does bother me. On the other hand the economy is booming, the GDP is sharply up, and if this continues, it all will soon even out.

My local Congresswoman tells us the president is open and forthright about his requests to Congress. I would expect that trend to continue.
I would also encourage you to write your concerns to your elected officials and keep track of how they vote.

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"Our government is constantly growing to meet the needs of an exer-expanding government"
Will Rogers

"While it is true we have the best politicians money can buy, we should be eternally thankful we get nowhere near the government we pay for"
Mark Twaiin

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chortle

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Foxfyre wrote:

The president sends Congress his wish list, but Congress puts together and votes for the budget that the president signs. The president cannot spend a dime that Congress does not allocate to him to spend. In wartime, a country will spend more than in peace time.

Congress, however, is spending like a drunken sailor on matters unrelated to war and this does bother me. On the other hand the economy is booming, the GDP is sharply up, and if this continues, it all will soon even out.

My local Congresswoman tells us the president is open and forthright about his requests to Congress. I would expect that trend to continue.
I would also encourage you to write your concerns to your elected officials and keep track of how they vote.

Everything that goes wrong is the fault of everyone but Bush, whose motto will likely be historically noted as "The buck stops anywhere but here."

foxfyre

We will take as our subject question, "What statements that have issued from Bush's mouth have been false?" You'll never admit that he has told a lie, because you apparently don't believe that's possible, so we'll go with demonstrably false statements and let others decide whether you suffer terminal credulity or that I suffer a surfeit of unwarranted distrust.

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Blatham I have never said Bush has never told a lie. I have said that to date nobody has provided any empirical or documented proof that he has lied in matters of presidential policy or in matters of his intentions no matter how badly you wish to believe he has lied.

An honest mistake is not a lie. George the first, following the Gulf War, was giving a sort of victory speech that included something to the effect, "And I am proud to say that once we got in there, not one piece of American equipment was found." His military advisors visibly winced. There was a LOT of American equipment there. The military commanders hadn't briefed the president on that and the speech writer failed to check the facts and royally screwed up. As it turned out, the media gave him a pass on that one and didn't make a big deal out of it which was the right thing to do. It was an honest mistake. Not a lie.

I have no doubts that our current president, especially given his rather unique speaking skills, has misspoken here and there on some minor detail. Were these lies? No they weren't. They were not intended to mislead. They were mistakes.

I'm sorry that you are so distressed that I perceive GWB to be an honest and honorable man as politicians go. And I'm sorry that you need to focus on him instead of the guy you seem to think should replace him.

I'm waiting for somebody to provide empirical or documented evidence that John Kerry is an honest man and worthy to be trusted to be leader of the United States. I would like to be reassured about that if he should win the election in November.

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Quote:

I'm waiting for somebody to provide empirical or documented evidence that John Kerry is an honest man

I'm afraid that is the silliest thing that I've seen you write. Please provide empirical and documented evidence that Barbara Bush is an honorable woman.

Quote:

I have no doubts that our current president, especially given his rather unique speaking skills, has misspoken here and there on some minor detail. Were these lies? No they weren't. They were not intended to mislead.

"They were not intended to mislead"??? There's a rather odd knowledge claim, given that so many people who have actually worked with the Bush are quite ready to disagree with your faith-based and rather distant familiarity with what goes on in his head.

Look, for whatever set of reasons, you are absolutely unprepared to reach any conclusion other than that Bush is honest. You will continue to read those sources which support your opinion, and not engage serious work that challenges it (of which there is a rich abundance). You will continue to squeeze out from any details of claims and evidence you do not like, expressing some alternative hypothesis ("well, that's just what he says", or "he was getting bad advice", or "the fourty-five affidavits look fishy to me").

So, let's end this now. You continue to post your notions, and where I think you are full of it, I'll post a contrasting view.

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mark

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If anyone but Kerry were running against Bush in the light of the not yet revived economy, the 9-11 investigations, and the bad month in Iraq, he would be twenty points ahead of Bush. He is not. He is behind Bush by a few points in every major poll.
Timberlandko is absolutely correct that there have been no proven lies that have come from President Bush. The hypocracy of some on the far left can be observed when their reactions concerning President Clinton's testimony came to light during his impeachment. President Clinton indicated that there was no sexual activity that took place between him and Ms. Lewinsky in his deposition in the Paula Jones hearing. Technically, he was correct since the clumsy lawyers did not properly define sexual activity before they question President Clinton in that hearing. Yet, the far left continued to scream--"No one has proven perjury"
It is quite clear that the claim that President Clinton lied in that case is far far more compelling than any allegation that President Bush lied with regard to WMD's.

As any good Law Dictionary will tell you--a lie is an intentional statement of an untruth designed to mislead another. I await proof of intentionality and knowledge of untruth on the part of President Bush.

It is not enough to claim that he "lied". Proof that he lied must be given.

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I am very much afraid that Mr. Blatham may not be comfortable with matters of fact.

It is a matter of fact--Indeed, he is on record--that Kerry has stated that Kerry lied about the disposition of his medals. The lie is palbable and directly related to a matter of fact rather than a matter of interpretation.

I await a quote of a lie from Mr. Bush with relation to a matter of fact. I am aware of none.

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Well, I hope that folks on the side of bush keep saying that the economy is booming. That is one thing that can't be spinned. The economy may be booming for wall street and the rich but for the middle class it is not. I don't have to prove that because if you are middle class or lower you will know it without being told. Just like when the middle class and lower was doing better we knew it without being told.

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revel wrote:

Well, I hope that folks on the side of bush keep saying that the economy is booming. That is one thing that can't be spinned. The economy may be booming for wall street and the rich but for the middle class it is not. I don't have to prove that because if you are middle class or lower you will know it without being told. Just like when the middle class and lower was doing better we knew it without being told.

I am glad you are so quick to factually state what all middle and lower class wage earners believe. It is no wonder there is great confusion here about what is a lie and what is not. You make up things and state them as fact and then claim republicans cannot see that Bush is not telling the truth? Why should I believe you when you are so obviously practicing the same thing? Just curious.

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sigh...

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You know Suzy, I truly don't know if Bush has lied or not. I personally think most politicians will/have lied to get what they want, which is power, influence, a place in history or whatever. But there are too many democrats and republicans who make statements as though they are quoting facts. You will see in my posts that I tend to question those who do this (as in the above post) or those who say things that are hypocritical. Those are people I take issue with.

Any statement which claims that all people in a certain group believe something is nearly always a lie. So why make such claims to back up a viewpoint? It does not make sense. Make an argument based on facts, not generalities that are not only wrong but stupid if you really think about it.

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It seems apparent to me that Kerry lied about those ribbons/medals. Is it any big deal? Not really. It could even be excused considering that was then, this is now, and the issue is now politically embarrasing. I doubt any one of us has never stretched or overlooked a truth to sidestep a personal embarrasment.

And I doubt any any one of us has never changed a point of view over time.

But there seems to be a pattern with Kerry that he has had a 'change of heart' or says things differently or he has changed his story on so many, many issues since he became President Kerry. He now has to conform to the expectations of his base who are all left of center including the extreme left. To do that, he qualifies what he said before or denies he said it or changes his official position on issues so that he can claim that he conforms.

How does one trust somebody like that with anything?

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revel wrote:

Well, I hope that folks on the side of bush keep saying that the economy is booming. That is one thing that can't be spinned. The economy may be booming for wall street and the rich but for the middle class it is not. I don't have to prove that because if you are middle class or lower you will know it without being told. Just like when the middle class and lower was doing better we knew it without being told.

Perhaps some might better their prospects through improvement of communications skills. Reading is fundamental. Its not good to rely on what you're told ... get the facts for yourself.

Quote:

Consumer Confidence Rises on Jobs

Tuesday April 27, 10:31 AM EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. consumer confidence jumped in April, driven primarily by increased faith in a recovery in employment, a report published on Tuesday said.

The Conference Board, a private research firm, said its index of consumer confidence jumped to 92.9 in April from a revised 88.5 in March. Economists surveyed by Reuters had forecast the index to ease to 88.0.

"The job market, which has a major impact on confidence, appears to be gaining strength," said Lynn Franco, director of research at the company's Consumer Research Center.

"The percentage of consumers claiming jobs are hard to get is now at its lowest level since November 2002, and more consumers expect this trend to continue," she added in a statement.

The number of consumers saying jobs were hard to get fell in April to 27.6 percent from March's revised 29.9 percent.

"The measure of people reporting that jobs are plentiful went up and the measure of people saying that jobs are hard to get dropped, so the confidence report may be reflecting a better tone to the labor market," said Joseph LaVorgna, senior U.S. economist at Deutsche Bank Securities in New York.

©2004 Reuters Limited.

With home sales reaching an historic peak, and consumer sentiment regarding employment conditions improving, it is reasonable to expect the April Jobs data to reinforce the trending indicated by the startling 308,000 March figure and the upward revisions to the January and February figures which accompanied the March release. It sure doesn't look good for those who count on the economy not looking good.

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I can believe this. Only the 50% are the ones who can move thier assets to foriegn shores and the ones who can hire a tax expert who can get them the tax breaks built into the system for the rich and the well to do. Dont forget that business is suppossed to pay income taxes as well as individuals.

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And Revel, one by one by one my out-of-work middle class friends & acquaintances are finding work--good jobs too. I am in a business in which I see the bottom line of a lot of other businesses and almost all small business are seeing increases in profits over the last several months and this is being reflected in the wages of their employees. As I am in one of the more 'economically depressed' areas of the country , it is almost a given that we are not unique. That is the empirical evidence. There is lots of documented evidence too in lower unemployment rates, higher GDP, higher consumer confidence, etc. that are all measurable and verifiable.

John Kerry in some of his ads, however, continues to bash Bush on the economy. If current trends continue, look for the GOP to use those ads to good advantage. Smile

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Foxfyre,

George Bush, in a speech from March, 2003:
"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.
And it has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of al Qaeda."

Lie. Does it matter?

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If Kerry lied, would it matter?

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