7
   

Does "historical ring" mean "historical feature"?

 
 
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 12:10 am

Context:

Conservative Christians who are otherwise great admirers
of C. S. Lewis may be troubled by this passage. Doesn't a com-
promise on Genesis 1 and 2 start the believer down a slippery
slope, ultimately resulting in the denial of the fundamental
truths of God and His miraculous actions? While there is clear
danger in unrestrained forms of "liberal" theology that eviscer-
ate the real truths of faith, mature observers are used to living
on slippery slopes and deciding where to place a sensible stop-
ping point. Many sacred texts do indeed carry the clear marks
of eyewitness history, and as believers we must hold fast to
those truths. Others, such as the stories of Job and Jonah, and
of Adam and Eve, frankly do not carry that same historical ring.
 
View best answer, chosen by oristarA
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 01:33 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Many sacred texts do indeed carry the clear marks of eyewitness history, and as believers we must hold fast to those truths. Others, such as the stories of Job and Jonah, and of Adam and Eve, frankly do not carry that same historical ring.


Try these definitions of "ring":
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/ring#ring-2
Quote:
2.2 (ring with) be filled or permeated with (a particular quality):

'a clever retort which rang with contempt'

'Her performance has so many qualities and rings with such truth.'

'Intermittent snippets of conversation suggesting rehearsal out-takes rang with a self-consciously clever sitcom snap, ultimately not terribly enlightening or deep.'

'Despite the great quality of its prose, the story itself rings with superficiality, a certain lack of true profundity that can be covered but not overcome.'
Quote:
2.3 [no object, with complement] convey a specified impression or quality:

'the author’s honesty rings true'

'For this is not simply a ‘message’ play, but a harrowing account of one family's trauma that rings horribly true.'

'Money was money and the wife would probably do a better job of running away the next time; for the first time, Kratos felt that reasoning ring hollow.'

'It has a story that still rings true today and sports a good handful of excellent performances.'
Quote:
1.4 [in singular] a particular quality conveyed by something heard or expressed:

'the song had a curious ring of nostalgia to it'

'He had seen, on the previous day, no trace of jealousy or resentment in his betrothed: he could still hear the candid ring of the girl's praise of Mrs. Vervain.'

'She heard the ring of sincerity in King Halion's voice and it made her more frightened than before.'

'The alleged mission to Spain is treated both as fact and failure, like the Athenian one which Luke presents with such a ring of glorious authenticity.'


I suspect it originated from the thought of a well-made bell conveying a specific tone when someone rings it. But that's just a guess.
OmSigDAVID
  Selected Answer
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 01:44 am
@oristarA,
It means an intuitive sense of authenticity or historical accuracy.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 02:12 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
I suspect it originated from the thought of a well-made bell conveying a specific tone when someone rings it. But that's just a guess.


Something along those lines. I heard that in the olden days people used to test if an alleged gold coin was not counterfeit by dropping it on a hard surface like a stone floor and listening to the sound (the 'ring') that it made. If it passed the test it was said to have "rung true" and by analogy a saying or assertion that convinces intuitively is said to have the 'ring of truth'.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:10 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

oralloy wrote:
I suspect it originated from the thought of a well-made bell conveying a specific tone when someone rings it. But that's just a guess.


Something along those lines. I heard that in the olden days people used to test if an alleged gold coin was not counterfeit by dropping it on a hard surface like a stone floor and listening to the sound (the 'ring') that it made. If it passed the test it was said to have "rung true" and by analogy a saying or assertion that convinces intuitively is said to have the 'ring of truth'.
WELL SAID.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:29 am
@contrex,
Ah, very good.

And the German word for sound is "Klang", which is just about perfect, onomatapoeically speaking.
Sounds about right.

What about the Colgate Ring of Confidence? Wink
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:44 am
From "A World History Encyclopedia" (sources not given):

Quote:
In the past coins were actually made of gold, silver or other metals. Their value depended on the amount of gold or silver they contained. Some people would make counterfeit coins by mixing gold or silver with a cheaper metal. However you could check if a coin was genuine by dropping it. If it was made of the proper metal it would 'ring true' of have the 'ring of truth'.


From the Online Etymology Dictionary (first usage cited as 1850):

Quote:
Meaning "resonance of coin or glass as a test of genuineness" is from 1850, with transferred use (ring of truth, etc.).


From The Free Dictionary:

Quote:
ring true
Fig. to sound or seem true or likely. (From testing the quality of metal or glass by striking it and evaluating the sound made.)


From "Phrases-dot-org-dot-U:"

Quote:
"Due to poor equipment and the scarcity of precious metals, metal workers of the Middle Ages were not able to produce coins that were uniform in appearance and weight. This situation gave criminals an opportunity they couldn't resist. Thus, when in doubt over a coin's validity, a tradesman would drop it on a stone slab to "sound it." If phony, it'd make a shrill or dull, flat tone in contrast to the clear ring of a true coin. By extension, a story tested and found acceptable is said to ring true, and its opposite, to ring false or hollow."

-Nancy M. Kendall, "True and false", "Christian Science Monitor" 3/19/2003

Ms. Kendall cites 'The Encyclopedia of Word and Phrase Origins,' by Robert Hendrickson; 'The Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins,' by W. and M. Morris; 'The Barnhart Dictionary of Etymology,' by R. Barnhart in her sources.


Although i found several references to glass ringing true (such a method is used to distinguish crystal from glass), the overwhelming opinion (although not by much) seems to favor coins. The ring of a bell finished a distant third.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 03:46 am
It need hardly be said that an argument, speech, explanation or statement may be said by listeners to have the 'ring of truth' and yet be false.
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:34 am
@contrex,

That is no doubt so, but don't you agree that it is almost always used in a positive way?
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 04:45 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


That is no doubt so, but don't you agree that it is almost always used in a positive way?


Yes, to say that a pronouncement 'rings true' is to make a positive statement about it, but this does not rule out the chance of later finding out that it is false. To 'ring true' is to convince intuitively, not logically.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 05:27 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
Many sacred texts do indeed carry the clear marks
of eyewitness history, and as believers we must hold fast to
those truths. Others, such as the stories of Job and Jonah, and
of Adam and Eve, frankly do not carry that same historical ring.


Historical ring in this regard just mean that some parts of the bible sound like it could be part of the real history of the human race and others parts sound more like fiction that does not have a connection to history.

Using ring in the manner of this story ring true to me and this story does not have the ring of truth to it.
0 Replies
 
McTag
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 10:39 am
@contrex,

I think you miss my point, but never mind.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Feb, 2014 11:02 am
@McTag,
McTag wrote:


I think you miss my point, but never mind.


I don't know that I do. I understand that if I say "Joe's account of what he saw last night has the ring of truth about it", I am hinting that I am inclined to believe it, (possibly pending further enquiries, possibly not)

It's just that I have heard so many things that had the 'ring of truth' and which turned out to be either false or massaged for presentation that IO have grown cynical.
0 Replies
 
 

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