31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2014 12:13 am
@Walter Hinteler,
the provisional government of Ukraine seems to be a wee bit bitter that they have been out played. I expect Obama to get there any day now.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2014 04:56 am
Commentators here see now the danger of a [world] "war by mistake" ...
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2014 06:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I am glad they talked with OSCE officials for hours. I guess I don't get why they kidnapped them in the first place.

The reason I said they called them NATO spies is because of the article you left in your post wherein the rebels called them NATO spies. Wonder why you like nick pick things?

here



Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2014 06:19 am
@revelette2,
Sorry, my bad.

I used the earlier translation:
Quote:
VYACHESLAV PONOMARYOV (translation): People who come here as observers from the European Union bring real spies with them. It doesn't look good at all.
revelette2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2014 06:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
OK. In any event they called them spies but at least they are now holding talks. I hope a resolution gets accomplished soon, they probably realize it will cause more harm for their cause if they keep them, surely. I mean, they must know Russia wouldn't be able back them publically because there is no way to justify it.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 28 Apr, 2014 06:24 pm
Quote:
“If the U.S. and the EU can only increase this incremental approach to sanctions in naming individuals and the occasional company or bank, this is a policy of turning the screw very, very slowly and not applying much pressure,” Schott said. “If what is on the table turns out to be more of the same, the Russians may play for more time and can continue to destabilize Ukraine and absorb the costs.”

Obama, Hufbauer said, appears to be reverting to President Woodrow Wilson’s view of sanctions. Wilson trumpeted the sanctions after World War I, saying if used properly “there will be no need for war.”

“The modern theory is that they are part of the force curve. They’re signaling that force is around the corner if sanctions don’t work,” he said. “Obama has really reverted to a Wilsonian view, that sanctions are an alternative to the use of force.”

http://news.yahoo.com/analysis-obama-not-alone-having-doubts-russia-sanctions-200501246--abc-news-topstories.html

And we all know what a colossal failure Wilson's approach was.

Quote:
If President Obama seems skeptical of his own plan to stop Russia’s meddling in Ukraine with just sanctions, he may have good reason. He is in uncharted waters, trying to pressure such a large country into backing down without the threat of force.

Obama not believing in his own plan is not new, Gates believes that Obama never believed in his own Afghanistan surge plan. The Europeans would be wise to tell Obama to go take a hike, that they will not follow him down this path that threatens all of our economies over russia having its way with Ukraine. Ukraine cant be saved from submission to Russia, and it is not wise to even try. Russia is the 7th largest global economy, a disintegrating Russian economy would doom us all. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and fab sound bites.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Apr, 2014 09:55 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
The United States has proof that the Russian government in Moscow is running a network of spies inside Eastern Ukraine because the U.S. government has recordings of their conversations, Secretary of State John Kerry said in a closed-door meeting Friday.

“Intel is producing taped conversations of intelligence operatives taking their orders from Moscow and everybody can tell the difference in the accents, in the idioms, in the language. We know exactly who’s giving those orders, we know where they are coming from,” Kerry said at a private meeting of the Trilateral Commission in Washington. A recording of Kerry’s remarks was obtained by The Daily Beast.



Kerry didn’t name specific Russian officials implicated in the recordings. But he claimed that the intercepts provided proof of the Russians deliberately fomenting unrest in Eastern Ukraine—and lying about it to U.S. officials and the public

http://news.yahoo.com/u-taped-moscow-plotting-chaos-094500766--politics.html

We also claimed proof that assad ordered chemical weapons use in Syria, and then had to backtrack due to lack of evidence. Let's hear the tapes before assuming that Kerry is telling the truth.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 May, 2014 11:04 am
Interesting report about the situation of Russians in Latvia: http://www.dw.de/russian-latvians-target-of-discrimination/a-17605939?maca=en-rss-en-all-1573-rdf
Quote:
Latvia's "non-citizens" are stateless Russians without passports who are not allowed to vote - despite having lived in Latvia for decades. How have they ended up in this limbo? And is it discriminatory?
[...]
There are also people like Nijonila Kuharthuk in Latvia. She, too, has lived in Riga for decades, but she was born in Ukraine.

Now, after 20 years as a non-citizen, she has decided to take the citizenship test after all. She wants to become a Latvian.

"What finally motivated me to do it was the sad events in my former homeland, Ukraine," she told DW. "What I don't want is for Putin to protect me. I don't want him to come one day to help the 300,000 non-citizens in Latvia."
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 3 May, 2014 03:16 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The only positive news seems to be that the OSCE observers held by pro-Russian separatists in eastern Ukraine have been released in the town of Slovyansk. (Russia's RIA news agency quoted Putin's envoy as saying.)

Dozens of people were killed in a fire and others were shot dead when fighting between pro- and anti-Russian groups broke out on the streets of Odessa on Ukraine's Black Sea coast on Friday, opening a new front in a conflict that has split the country. (Ukrainian police just watch the pro-Russians die in the fire.)

In the east, pro-Russian separatists brought down two Ukrainian military helicopters.

... ... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 May, 2014 10:34 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
A conference by minority groups in Europe:

Europe's minorities troubled by Crimean crisis
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 10:36 am
Considering that just the other day Russia had its annual memorial services for the 20 plus million that died in WWII, one might think that Russia's reaction to the Ukraine flirting with the EU would evoke a less than positive reaction? I think the myopia might be that Europe thinks only "the Jews" bemoan the Holocaust, and everyone else "got over it." That could be very wrong, and Russia might just be teaching the EU to not "flirt" with its historical spheres of influence?

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 10:50 am
@Foofie,
And what, dear Foofie, are your anti-European theories re Georgia, Moldavia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan ... ? And the Union of Russia and Belarus was created because " Europe thinks only "the Jews" bemoan the Holocaust" as well?
Foofie
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 03:19 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

And what, dear Foofie, are your anti-European theories re Georgia, Moldavia, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan ... ? And the Union of Russia and Belarus was created because " Europe thinks only "the Jews" bemoan the Holocaust" as well?


I'm not "anti-European." In my opinion, I just am not eurocentric as many Europeans may still be believing that their culture/political institutions/and way of life should be the role model for the world. It might be that I am more realistic that Russia is as territorial as China might be. Or, possibly that with the porous borders within the EU, the belief being that everyone should join the game/club? That shouldn't be necessary, if the EU can be an economic powerhouse without continual new members; otherwise, one might wonder if the EU is a Ponzi scheme?





Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Tue 13 May, 2014 11:25 pm
@Foofie,
It's a European problem, a problem in Europe. And that's why the OSCE (Council of Europe) is involved.

The EU acts similar like the USA with the sanctions
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 May, 2014 07:47 am
I'm still trying to find out if the MAJORITY of Ukrainians are pro-Russian or pro-European?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 May, 2014 09:16 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:
I'm still trying to find out if the MAJORITY of Ukrainians are pro-Russian or pro-European?


http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zpse1a32c1c.jpg

But carry on with your research.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 May, 2014 02:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, I am embarrassed to admit it took me a few minutes to figure out what your point was. Good come back!!!
roger
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 May, 2014 03:02 pm
@RABEL222,
Me to. Walter can be very subtle.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Reply Wed 14 May, 2014 03:57 pm
At the moment I'm guessing the majority of western Ukrainians are pro-Europe, and the majority of eastern Ukrainians are pro-Russian, but nobody seems to know for sure.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 May, 2014 04:35 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Why don't you go over there and ask everyone? You can go all Godsquad if you want. You'll have to take care though, once the Russians find out about your superior wargaming capabilities they'll probably want to recruit you.
0 Replies
 
 

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