31
   

COUP IN KYIV?

 
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2014 10:20 am
I wonder if there are newish countries that joined the EU, for the benefits of younger people going to the more economically prosperous EU countries for jobs, that are secretly smiling about the situation in the Ukraine. Let's be honest, if the Ukraine joined the EU, how many Ukrainian younger people would pack their suitcases tonight to go to western Europe for a job? And, that job would have previously been held possibly by another EU member? The losers might be the western European countries that would have had a new demographic of cheap labor, eager to do all sorts of work, if the Ukraine became an EU member.

In effect, I would posit that everyone sees the situation from their own self-serving standpoint - international law is just a smokescreen, in my opinion?

The problem in western Europe might just be that the labor force in each country just doesn't want to do certain (humiliating?) jobs, like home health aid for the aged, etc. Many Western European elders might want a nice obsequious Eastern European home health aid to make them tea, and do their laundry?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2014 10:41 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Many Western European elders might want a nice obsequious Eastern European home health aid to make them tea, and do their laundry?
Indeed that happens here quite often. But they get paid here as any other would get paid for the job - we got EU-laws, national labour laws and tariffs.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2014 10:43 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
I wonder if there are newish countries that joined the EU, for the benefits of younger people going to the more economically prosperous EU countries for jobs, that are secretly smiling about the situation in the Ukraine. Let's be honest, if the Ukraine joined the EU, how many Ukrainian younger people would pack their suitcases tonight to go to western Europe for a job? And, that job would have previously been held possibly by another EU member? The losers might be the western European countries that would have had a new demographic of cheap labor, eager to do all sorts of work, if the Ukraine became an EU member.
It would take longer than a decade to let them pack their suitcases ... if they wanted to wait until Ukraine becomes an EU-member state.
They can, however, come here like all the other Ukrainians, who are here.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2014 10:45 am
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
In effect, I would posit that everyone sees the situation from their own self-serving standpoint - international law is just a smokescreen, in my opinion?
How can countries trade if not regulated by some international laws? Tourism without international laws? ... ... ...
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2014 11:14 am
Quote:
Source: Reuters - Wed, 19 Mar 2014 04:57 PM
GENEVA, March 19 (Reuters) - Russia signalled concern on Wednesday at Estonia's treatment of its large ethnic Russian minority, comparing language policy in the Baltic state with what it said was a call in Ukraine to prevent the use of Russian.

Russia has defended its annexation of Ukraine's Crimea peninsula by arguing it has the right to protect Russian-speakers outside its borders, so the reference to linguistic tensions in another former Soviet republic comes at a highly sensitive moment.

Russia fully supported the protection of the rights of linguistic minorities, a Moscow diplomat told the United Nations Human Rights Council in Geneva, according to a summary of the session issued by the U.N.'s information department.

"Language should not be used to segregate and isolate groups," the diplomat was reported as saying. Russia was "concerned by steps taken in this regard in Estonia as well as in Ukraine," the Moscow envoy was said to have added.

The text of the Russian remarks, echoing long-standing complaints over Estonia's insistence that the large Russian minority in the east of the country should be able to speak Estonian, was not immediately available.

But amid the growing Crimea crisis, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania - which like Ukraine were all parts of the old Soviet Union - have expressed growing apprehension over Moscow's intentions.

U.S. Vice President Joe Biden is currently in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius as part of a trip to reassure the three countries, all European Union and NATO members, of Washington's support.

Ukraine told the rights council that U.N. experts had found no credible evidence of mistreatment of its Russian minority as alleged by Moscow -- one of whose pro-Kremlin newspapers said this week there was "bloodshed almost like in Syria" in the east of the country.

The new government in Kiev, a Ukrainian envoy declared, was reinvigorating its promotion and protection of the rights of minorities "to the highest international standards".

The envoy asked what measures could be taken to protect Ukrainian, Crimean Tatar and other minority groups in Crimea "whose rights are being violated under the Russian occupation."

Responding, the Russian delegate said there were no violations of minority rights in Crimea and minorities were not being persecuted. The new Russian-backed government there had guaranteed protection of the Tatars. (Reporting by Robert Evans; Editing by Mark Trevelyan)
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Mar, 2014 11:38 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Russia's Monroe doctrine. It's as reasonable as the M doctrine. Russia can say, as they are that they are protecting the rights of individuals, which they are. The USA mouthed that line but they never did protect anyone but their dictator du jour and us business interests.

The USA, caught between their hypocrisy and their hypocrisy!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 03:40 am
Another development.
Quote:
Ukrainians have donated over one million dollars to the country's impoverished armed forces, after the Ministry of Defence set up a telephone appeal for funds, it seems.

The ministry's official Facebook page says: "Support the Army of Ukraine! Citizens' campaign to help the Armed Forces of Ukraine with material, technical and medical supplies." People donated some 9.9m hryvnyas ($1m; £611,000), a proportion of which coming from their mobile phones in less than three days, the ministry says.

The appeal asked people to text 565 to automatically transfer 5 hryvnyas to the fund. According to ministry figures, more than half of the money was pledged by individuals, but Ukrainian businesses also sent significant amounts.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov recently said only 6,000 troops are combat-ready due to a lack of funding.

The campaign has also been hijacked by internet mischief-makers trying to trick Russians into messaging the same number.

Hoax campaigns urge ethnic Russians to "help the liberators of Crimea" from the so-called brown plague - Ukraine - by texting 565 from a Ukrainian-network mobile. They claim the money would buy "food, socks, mobile shower units" for the pro-Russian forces in the region. It's not known how many people - if any - have fallen for the joke.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-26631775
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 06:46 am
@izzythepush,
Russia's periphery: Who's next?
Quote:
After reaching out to Crimea to join Russia, no one's sure what Putin will do next to make his 'divided' country whole. NATO sees a wider regional strategy at play. DW looks at the key areas that could be affected.

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps7ee08871.jpg

[...]

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps8cdd03da.jpg

[...]

http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w641/Walter_Hinteler/a_zps9e1daf45.jpg

... ... ...

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 06:57 am
Thanks, Walter. These issues have been on my mind.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 07:04 am
Worrying times.

I've got the news on in the background and there's a mention of Ukraine preparing to get their 45,000 troops and families out of Crimea over the next few days.

Let's hope it all stops there, and Putin goes back to his topless fishing.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 11:07 am
@Lordyaswas,
Quote:
Let's hope it all stops there, and Putin goes back to his topless fishing.


I was reading an analysis yesterday that I agreed with that posits the idea that we should let Russia take Crimea with a who cares attitude but tell Russia no more, that they dont have the same freedom to take any more of Ukraine.
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 12:25 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
Many Western European elders might want a nice obsequious Eastern European home health aid to make them tea, and do their laundry?
Indeed that happens here quite often. But they get paid here as any other would get paid for the job - we got EU-laws, national labour laws and tariffs.


My point was that native citizens in richer EU countries might not want the less prestigious jobs, while workers from a poorer EU country might be willing to do those jobs. If the Ukraine joined the EU, the younger Ukrainians would be competing, and possibly getting, the job a worker from a country with more EU "seniority" might have wanted. As the saying goes, "the early bird gets the worm"; however, if the Ukraine became an EU member, Ukrainians might be getting the proverbial worm (i.e., job in a richer EU country). The scale of pay is a non-sequitur to my point; I was only pointing out that job competition between poorer EU countries, for jobs in richer EU countries, seems to be a zero-sum game (aka, only one winner).
Foofie
 
  0  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 12:30 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Foofie wrote:
In effect, I would posit that everyone sees the situation from their own self-serving standpoint - international law is just a smokescreen, in my opinion?
How can countries trade if not regulated by some international laws? Tourism without international laws? ... ... ...


I was talking about the preferences of those who gets to own Crimea. People want what serves their self-interests. Bringing in the legality, based on international law, is just adding weight to one's possible argument. People who do not have international law in their argument develop their own rationale. Everyone, in my opinion, wants to have the moral high-ground, so to speak. Even Hitler was claimed to be doing good, by "cleaning up Europe." Get it?
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 12:32 pm
@Foofie,
Well, that might be so. And at least, it's done legally.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 12:36 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

Well, that might be so. And at least, it's done legally.


I do not know what you are alluding to, since you seem to be posting without explaining completely your point?
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 12:52 pm
@Foofie,
Foofus: I do not know what you are alluding to

But then you are pretty damn thick.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 01:09 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Even Hitler was claimed to be doing good, by "cleaning up Europe." Get it?
No.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 01:12 pm
@Foofie,
If some people from an EU-country move to another EU-country - that is done legally: EU-citizen have the right to move and reside freely within the territory of the EU. It does not matter whether to work or study there or just to visit as a tourist.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 04:06 pm
Well, dammit. I've searched everywhere to locate where I found mention of "Bush's sanctions."

I was wrong.

I impose a thirty day banishment of me from political pages to think about my error, and repent my ways.

(sits in corner)
panzade
 
  4  
Reply Thu 20 Mar, 2014 05:56 pm
@Lash,
Don't be silly.
We all get it wrong sometimes.
You're just one of the very few that will admit it.
 

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