COUP IN KYIV?

You think it's fashionable to point up and out war criminals and terrorists, Spendi? What is fashionable, if a2k is any example, is providing them cover. You yourself seem to vacillate wildly on this.

Spendius: How would you draw the teeth from the m/i complex? There's nothing foggy about that question.

There's obviously a great deal of foggy in your head. Of course there is no easy answer to controlling the strongest military power ever. That's the ******* point!

Because it's an intractable problem you advise remaining silent?

Well, if you meant by "we expanded NATO so much" that all the alliance's various bodies agreed to the enlargements of NATO, it certainly was nit-picking. My bad that I didn't get it. (I'd thought, "we" was meant to be the USA. Sorry!)

There's no point in doing anything else. Except to comment from a neutral position.

I agree with Kant that it is absurd to castigate the m/i complex unless one has an alternative and one is ready for everybody to agree with one's wonderful arguments and demolish it.

I'm only a Luddite when I want to be.

The language of the memorandum doesn't specify legal agreement. Do you assert that the Budapest Memorandum is legally binding?

Spendi: There's no point in doing anything else. Except to comment from a neutral position.
//////

Sorta like picking who is your favorite mafia gang.

What are we gonna do?
Take it in front of Judge Judy?

The m/I complex is probably wetting their panties thinking about Russia once more becoming the boogeyman for the American sheeple.

Just think what would be possible if thatcher and Reagan were to arise, zombie like, from whatever cesspools they were buried in.

Creating a enemy that the collective is willing to get emotional about is near the top of the toolbox for dictators. Maybe we are not so great after all. Kinda keeps the focus off of the politicians at home who cant get much of anything done right well.

No. I said neutral.

Why are you running away from offering your solution JT?

S:No. I said neutral.

I know what you said. Why are you such a coward? You've been waffling on this for a good long time.

S: Why are you running away from offering your solution JT?

I'm not running away. What part of "I have no solution" don't you understand?
But again, before you go and embarrass yourself, not having a solution doesn't and most assuredly shouldn't stop anyone from asking for justice.

Hawkeye: Creating a enemy that the collective is willing to get emotional about is near the top of the toolbox for dictators.

What does that say about the USA, Hawk? No one and nothing is as good at creating fictitious enemies than the US propaganda machine.

:::::::::::::::::::::::
Read all of the article at,

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Stockwell/In_Search_Enemies.html

excerpts from the book

In Search of Enemies

by John Stockwell

W.W. Norton, 1978

p9
Author's Note

In December i976 I advised my boss in the CIA's Africa Division of my intention to resign. For his own reasons, he urged me to take several months leave to reconsider. Making it clear I would not change my mind, I accepted his offer of several more pay checks and took three months sick leave.

I did not tell anyone I planned to write a book. In fact, I had no great confidence in my ability to write. I had been an operations officer-an activist-for the past dozen years in the CIA.

What about the oath of secrecy I signed when I joined the CIA in 1964? I cannot be bound by it for four reasons: First, my oath was illegally, fraudulently obtained. My CIA recruiters lied to me about the clandestine services as they swore me in. They insisted the CIA functioned to gather intelligence. It did not kill, use drugs, or damage people's lives, they assured me. These lies were perpetuated in the following year of training courses. It was not until the disclosures of the Church and Pike Committees in 1975 that I learned the full, shocking truth about my employers.

I do not mean to suggest that I was a puritan or out of step with the moral norms of modern times; nor had I been squeamish about my CIA activities. To the contrary, I had participated in operations which stretched the boundaries of anyone's conscience. But the congressional committees disclosed CIA activities which had previously been concealed, which I could not rationalize.

The disclosures about the plot to poison Patrice Lumumba struck me personally in two ways. First, men I had worked with had been involved. Beyond that, Lumumba had been baptized into the Methodist Church in 1937, the same year I was baptized a Presbyterian. He had attended a Methodist mission school at Wembo Nyama in the Kasai Province of the Belgian Congo (Zaire), while I attended the Presbyterian school in Lubondai in the same province. The two church communities overlapped. My parents sometimes drove to Wembo Nyama to buy rice for our schools. American Methodist children were my classmates in Lubondai. Lumumba was not, in 1961, the Methodists' favorite son, but he was a member of the missionary community in which my parents had spent most of their adult lives, and in which I grew up.

Standard tactic.



It should do if they don't know whether more injustice might result.

In the Ukraine there are rival injustices. I assume the protests in Kiev were asking for justice.

If it wasn't legally binding, Ukraine would be still the world's third largest nuclear power.

Patriotic Ukrainians were unhappy with how NATO had carried about t crisis and a group calling itself "cyber berkut" hacked the NATO-website last night.
Source

YanukovychLeaks - from a group investigating the documents found in Mezhihirya

Ukraine says Russian forces move outside Crimea




SIMFEROPOL, Ukraine (AP) - Russian forces backed by helicopter gunships and armored vehicles Saturday took control of a village near the border with Crimea on the eve of a referendum on whether the region should seek annexation by Moscow, Ukrainian officials said.

The action in Strilkove appeared to be the first move outside Crimea, where Russian forces have been in effective control since late last month. There were no reports of gunfire or injuries. The incident raises tensions already at a high level before Sunday's referendum.

In a statement, the Foreign Ministry denounced the foray outside Crimea, and said Ukraine "reserves the right to use all necessary measures to stop the military invasion by Russia."

The village is on a long spit reaching northward from the main part of the Black Sea peninsula, about 10 kilometers (six miles) north of the border between Crimea and the Kherson region.


A spokesman for the Ukrainian border guard service, Oleg Slobodyan, told The Associated Press the Russians, about 120 in all, took control of a natural gas distribution station in the village. The Foreign Ministry said the force consisted of about 80 and didn't mention the station, but said the village was seized.

As Crimea prepares for Sunday's referendum, dozens of billboards throughout the regional capital proclaim "Together With Russia." But a few have been hit by spray-painters who scrawled out "Russia" and replaced it with "Ukraine."

The referendum is denounced by Kiev and the West as illegitimate ; the West is threatening costly sanctions against Russia if it moves to incorporate Crimea. But the result is seen as a foregone conclusion - Crimea is almost certain to vote to split off, further aggravating Ukraine's political crisis and one of the harshest East-West confrontations since the end of the Cold war.

In Moscow, tens of thousands of anti-government protesters marched in central Moscow against the referendum. Protesters carried banners that read: "For your freedom and for ours!" One demonstrator held up a plate of salo - cured pork fat that is a staple of Ukrainian cuisine and adored by many Russians - along with a poster that read: "Make salo, not war!"

Nearby, a rally of several thousand people was held close to the Kremlin in support of Russian intervention in Crimea.

At the United Nations, Russia vetoed a Security Council resolution declaring the referendum illegal, and close ally China abstained in a sign of Moscow's isolation on the issue. Supporters of the U.S.-sponsored resolution knew that Russia would use its veto. But they put the resolution to a vote Saturday morning to show the strength of opposition in the 15-member Security Council to Moscow's takeover of Crimea. The final vote was 13 members in favor, China's abstention, and Russia as a permanent council member casting a veto.

The question of whether Crimea, a strategically important Black Sea peninsula that is home to a key Russian naval base, should become part of Moscow's orbit raises strong passions on both sides.

Supporters say the region rightfully belongs to Russia and that the government that replaced fugitive President Viktor Yanukovych is a coterie of fascist-minded nationalists who will abuse Crimea's majority ethnic-Russian population. Opponents bristle at Russia's heavy hand. Crimea effectively is already under Russian control after forces were sent in last month.

Tensions are also high elsewhere in Ukraine. On Friday night, two people were killed and several wounded in a shootout that erupted after a clash in the city of Kharkiv between pro-Russian demonstrators and their opponents.

On Saturday, thousands of pro-Russia demonstrators in the eastern city of Donetsk stormed the local offices of the national security service, smashing windows, taking down the building's Ukrainian flag and raising a Russian one.

In downtown Simferopol, at least 1,000 people on Saturday jammed a square in front of a soundstage and two massive TV screens as a long succession of Russian musical acts lauding "friendship of nations" and Russia itself. Musical acts from distant regions of Russia sang folk songs and danced traditional dance. One ensemble dressed as fairy-tale characters sang "Don't Fall Out Of Love with Russia!" No Ukrainian flags or colors were visible.

"We have our great mother, Russia, who has taken us in her arms," said 40-year-old demonstrator Nikolai Antonov. "If Russia hadn't protected us, we would have had to take up arms" against the new authorities in Kiev.

Posters pasted to walls throughout the city center made comparisons between Russia and Ukraine for gasoline prices, doctors' salaries and student benefits. The comparisons all suggested Russia was a more prosperous country.

But referendum opponents at a smaller rally said the economic argument is foolish.

"It's better to be poor and live in a normal country than to live in a police state," said Ine Sultanova, a 66-year-old retired engineer.

"I'm a citizen of Ukraine. I don't want to be a citizen of another country, or of Russia. It's well known what it's like to live in Russia. There's absolutely no civil society whatsoever. You can't say what you want. People can't gather for demonstrations unless it's good for the government," said Andrei Voloshin, a 20-year-old law student.

Details of the Friday night shooting in the city of Kharkiv were murky, but local news reports said it broke out after a skirmish between pro-Russia demonstrators and their opponents.

Violence has escalated in Ukraine's Russia-leaning east in recent days, as pro-Russia demonstrators have seized government buildings and clashed with supporters of the new Kiev government. At least one person died and 17 were wounded in clashes in Donetsk on Thursday.

Kharkiv, near the Russian border, is a hotbed of pro-Russia sentiment and opposition to the acting Ukrainian government that took power last month after Yanukovych fled the country in the wake of months of protests.

After the skirmish, according to the reports, there was gunfire outside a building housing the offices of several nationalist groups including Right Sector, which was one of the drivers of the protests against Yanukovych and that vehemently opposes Russian influence in Ukraine.

Russia has denounced Right Sector and similar groups as "fascists" who allegedly want to oppress ethnic Russians in Ukraine.

A spokesman for Right Sector in eastern Ukraine, Igor Moseichuk, was quoted by the Interfax news agency as saying the shooting was a "planned provocation by pro-Russian forces."

Interior Minister Arsen Avakov said on his Facebook page that two people were killed and several wounded, including a policeman who was seriously injured. He said some 30 people "from both sides" had been detained.

The victims' identities were not immediately made public. Moseichuk was quoted as saying the two killed were not among those inside the Right Sector offices.

The violence in Kharkiv and Donetsk has raised concern that Russia, which has massed troops near eastern Ukraine's border, could use bloodshed as a justification for sending in forces to protect the ethnic Russian population.

Ukraine's acting president, Oleksandr Turchynov, warned Saturday that "there's a real danger of the threat of invasion of the territory of Ukraine."

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov on Friday, after meeting with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, said Russia has no plans to send troops into eastern Ukraine.

But in the wake of Saturday's movement, U.S. Sen. John McCain, part of an American delegation visiting Kiev, told a news conference that "the United States and our European allies will be contemplating actions that we never have had before in our relations with Russia."

___

Read more at http://www.philly.com/philly/news/nation_world/20140315_ap_45665ddd7fce4795994193b61e73862f.html#JIfWewRUOflsJEpm.99

Source

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Please don't use my postings to promulgate your position. You would just be exploiting my posts. That is not ethical, in my opinion, since I do not want to interact with you, and I did not post to you. You are being intrusive just like the country you accuse of international intrusiveness, in my opinion.