8
   

Vitamins only produce Vitamin-enriched urine.

 
 
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 06:04 am
Discuss.

Back in December, as I was getting ready to leave for Canada, I read in the US press several articles about Vitamins not being effective at bringing health benefits to users. I expected to see a major controversy arise over calling a multi-billion industry essentially a hoax.

I've seen nada since.

Did everyone stop buying and taking them?


Joe(My, that's a lovely shade of yellow !) Nation
 
jespah
 
  5  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 07:20 am
@Joe Nation,
Iron is useful for people who are anemic, and calcium is for those who are lactose intolerant or otherwise shouldn't have dairy. Recognize that there are other food allergies (most likely nut allergies) which might, if severe and broad enough, prevent someone from being able to intake a balanced diet. But otherwise, yeah, people should just eat a balanced diet.

Also, there are folks who just can't afford it, and/or don't know how to economically (and deliciously) cook all of the necessary variety. Locavores in the northeast US really shouldn't be eating strawberries this time of year, yes?
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  3  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 07:53 am
@Joe Nation,
As I understand it, ones body can only take in so much of a given vitamin at one time and thusly flushes out the rest of the unused portion out of the system. So ingesting a vitamin that promises 300% daily dose of a given vitamin is just a 200+% waste (give or take if ones diet has already included said respective vitamin already) .

On the other hand, taking a daily vitamin, one that supplements (X < 100% should still be a somewhat good thing if ones diet isn't a balanced one).

I personally don't take a daily vitamin .... Just because I'm kind of cheap.

I worry more about things like 5 Hour Energy drink which contains an utterly insane 3000+% of several vitamin B variations. That's an insane overdose of vitamins. There have been documented cases of vitamin overdoses with ones such as vitamin A, et al.... One can overdose on certain vitamins. My father has been documented in having negative health effects because he received vitamin A booster shots as a child. Taking some of these overkill vitamin pills can possibly have a negative effect on ones health if they are taken too liberally.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  4  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 09:48 am
@Joe Nation,
I agree with you Joe.....and in part disagree at the same time.

I talked about this in another thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating myself.

Both Wally and I (Wally on January 3rd, me on Jan 14th) went to see a nutritionist. Him for his weight loss with attending loss of muscle mass, recovery from heart surgery, depression and addiction issues. Me for overall depletion of my seritonin, and weight gain.

The results on that in a bit.

First, I very much think that the average person walking into a drug store and picking up a bottle of multi-vitamins, or reading something on the internet about a particular supplement, and buying it, is largely a great waste of time and money.

Jespah mentioned, for instance, specifically mentioned iron and calcium. But what type of iron? Iron is notoriously poor for getting into the system, and there are better formulas of iron that let it get into your body. Also Jes, were you aware that when you take your iron supplement, you must Not consume it with dairy of any type? I didn't. In addition, for both men and women, you need to take the proper iron supplement 21 days on, and 7 days off. And calcium.....that needs to be taken with the proper amount of Vitamin D.

Anyway, I think a lot of people read something in a magazine, or online and run out and buy it. They don't know if their body already has enough of that, or need something else, or if they are having symptoms of some type, what exactly will help. Also, there are so many brands out there, and the difference in quality varies widely. The cost may or may not have anything to do with how good they are. The main thing is not all brands are anything like equal.

That's why years ago I stopped buying supplements and went with the "balanced diet" way of life.

The thing is, both of us did have unfulfilled bodily requirements, but no way of knowing where to start. The best diet wasn't enough.

The first thing the nutritionist asked us is what our genetic background was. Where our people were from. Yes, we are all humans, but why would a person whose evolutionary process involved ancestors that lived through an Ice Age have the same exact needs as another whose ancestors evolved living on the equator? Different stressors, different diet, different bone mass, different propensity to addiction, and addiction to different things, etc etc.

The supplements we were given have almost nothing in common with each other. In fact, there is only one that is the same. Interestingly enough, that supplement is one that for him keeps his testosterone from converting to estrogren, and for me does the opposite.
I know that sounds strange, but it definately works that way.
We learned that when men use testosterone gel, what they don't realize is after 3 months or so of use, the body starts to convert it, so the benefits are lost. This one supplement keeps that from happening.

What the results have been in this brief time is that Wally is re-developing his muscle mass in all the places men want them, and I in turn am reverting back to a more curvy shape, that I was losing after I went through menopause. I look at myself in the mirror, and it's not lying.

Wally is taking a whey shake no more than 10 minutes after he exercises. This builds muscle.

I take sunflower lecithin powder a half hour before exercise. This enhances the fat burning segment of exercise. I have not otherwise increase or changed my normal exercise regime on bit. However, there is a difference, I can tell.

There are others I won't bother to go into here, except to say both our bodies are feeling much more healthy, at ease, and happy.

So, in conclusion, while Vitamin and mineral and amino acid supplements do just produce enriched urine in a lot (even most) cases, if done with the proper guidance, in the proper amounts, at the proper times and with the proper food support taken with it, it can produce dramatic results.

It's kind of like "Don't try this at home kids" It's worth finding someone with an excellent reputation and skills to help you. I'll be eternally grateful to Dr. Luepnitz.





0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 09:57 am
This woman says what I believe on the subject:

Elizabeth Hayes
Staff reporter-
Portland Business Journal

Most large, clinical trials of vitamin supplements — including some concluding that they have no value or are harmful — are flawed, researchers at Oregon State University found.
The problem is studying nutrients that are naturally available in the human diet the same way you would study a powerful prescription drug, the OSU analysis found. The approach leads to conclusions that “have little scientific meaning, even less accuracy and often defy a wealth of other evidence,” said Balz Frei, professor and director of OSU’s Linus Pauling Institute.
People with poor diets and do not meet daily recommended intakes for many vitamins and minerals might greatly benefit from a daily multivitamin or mineral supplement.
What is needed are new methodologies that accurately measure baseline nutrient levels, provide supplements or dietary changes only to subjects who clearly are deficient and studying the resulting changes in their health, the researchers concluded in a review published in the journal Nutrients.
Tests should be done with blood plasma or other measurements, researchers found. The new analysis specifically looked at problems with vitamin C studies, but the observations relate to a wide range of studies on various micro-nutrients and vitamins.
“If a person already has adequate amounts of a particular vitamin or nutrient, then a supplement will probably provide little or no benefit — that's common sense,” said Frei, who is an international expert on vitamin C and antioxidants. “But most of our supposedly scientific studies take results from people with good diets and healthy lifestyles and use them to conclude that supplements are of no value to anyone.”
Americans do not have an optimal diet, generally speaking, Frei said.
More than 90 percent of U.S. adults don’t get the required amounts of vitamins D and E for basic health, more than 40 percent don’t get enough vitamin C and half don’t get enough vitamin A, calcium and magnesium.
“It’s fine to tell people to eat better, but it’s foolish to suggest that a multivitamin which costs a nickel a day is a bad idea,” Frei said.
Elizabeth Hayes covers health care for the Business Journal.

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/blog/health-care-inc/2013/12/in-defense-of-vitamins-osu.html?page=all
0 Replies
 
jespah
 
  2  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 11:04 am
Thanks, chai; I did not know that about iron and dairy.

And, glad to read that you and Wally are doing better these days. Smile
chai2
 
  2  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 11:29 am
@jespah,
Thanks jes.
Interestingly enough, Wally is the one who needs the iron, not me.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 01:52 pm
All good comments thus far.

Here's paper that sparked the headlines.
From Annals of Internal Medicine

http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253

They were being more specific than those headline led me to believe. Their caution was against the idea that talking vitamins would help stave off chronic diseases such as heart condition or cancer.

400, 000 people is a lot of people studied.

But tear apart what they say if you can.

Joe(pass me a grape)Nation
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  0  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 02:04 pm
@Joe Nation,
A lot of contradictory hoopla, in my opinion. But, the fact remains that spina bifida has supposedly decreased due to women in their child bearing years taking folic acid (this used to be a problem of those with English or Irish ancestry).

Or, infants in under developed countries getting vitamin A, and there is supposedly less infant blindness.

Or, vitamin D supposedly benefitting those with MS.

So, one can believe that by eating a modern diet, that has many nutrients taken out of the food, before it gets to our mouths, is a healthy diet.

I am not arguing with you; just saying that it is a personal choice. And, one cannot take vitamins and then smoke/drink and do other assorted unhealthy activities, and expect to grow old gracefully. Even jogging is not for everyone.

I think that being able to afford living on Sutton Place is good for one's health. A possible false correlation, but they seem happier and healthier, when passing on the street (walking up to Carl Shurz park).

Joe Nation
 
  2  
Thu 6 Feb, 2014 05:50 pm
@Foofie,
You're missing the point, Foofie, again Their caution was against the idea that talking vitamins would help stave off chronic diseases such as heart condition or cancer.

People who take Vitamin E, for example, or take Fish Oil Pills or take increasingly larger amounts of Niacin and B12 or B6 or all three, are kidding themselves in terms of affecting any protection against Chronic Diseases.

I'm not advocating eliminating the medical use of vitamins. What I'm reporting is the conclusion that most uses of vitamins don't provide the effects that are hoped for.

(Shh. ,,,,, Carl Shurz Park is one of my favorite places. Amazing energy rises as the waters swirl and the boats go by making it seem like some kind of nexus.

Joe(or maybe it was that third martini)Nation

Foofie
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 02:56 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

You're missing the point, Foofie, again Their caution was against the idea that talking vitamins would help stave off chronic diseases such as heart condition or cancer.

People who take Vitamin E, for example, or take Fish Oil Pills or take increasingly larger amounts of Niacin and B12 or B6 or all three, are kidding themselves in terms of affecting any protection against Chronic Diseases.

I'm not advocating eliminating the medical use of vitamins. What I'm reporting is the conclusion that most uses of vitamins don't provide the effects that are hoped for.

(Shh. ,,,,, Carl Shurz Park is one of my favorite places. Amazing energy rises as the waters swirl and the boats go by making it seem like some kind of nexus.

Joe(or maybe it was that third martini)Nation




http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140205165757.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine+%28Health+%26+Medicine+News+--+ScienceDaily%29

I think it is that Carl Shurz park has a demographic that appears like those people in Manhattan that read books, and enjoy their lives? Very little gnashing of teeth or resentment to others? I suspect that civility was taught at an early age.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 03:27 pm
@Joe Nation,
I'm mixed on all this, somewhere between Joe Nation's take and Chai's take re those with certain nutritional needs, which you might not know about without checking with a reputable nutritionist.

Kicking me more to JoeN's side, there's this in the Guardian today:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/07/fake-food-scandal-revealed-tests-products-mislabelled
The bit about pills -
"In some cases the results raised concerns over immediate food safety. The herbal slimming tea that was mostly sugar contained a prescription obesity drug that has been withdrawn because of its side-effects.

Making false promises was a dominant theme among vitamin and mineral supplements. Of 43 samples tested, 88% made health claims that are not allowed under legislation because there is no science to support them or were mislabelled as to their content in some way.

Even when fraud or mislabelling is found, it is not aways followed up. Once it has detected a problem with a product, a council is required to refer it to the home authority in which it was originally made, which may or may not take enforcement action."


I'm your basic get-vitamins-from-food person, but I've been heavily pushed to take fish oil by my eye docs over the years, despite that I eat increasingly more and more oily fish. I bought some of those pills, which I consider to be giant sized, gag city. I asked the pharmacist if I can put the fish oil in soup (etcetera) without somehow messing it up, and he said yes, and so did the docs.

That's easy enough, but I'd rather rely on fishcakes, and pretty much do, as those pills cost big money to me. I also went through a period of being recommended to take beta carotene and vit E and C supplements (eh!) and stopped that. Eat food..
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Sat 8 Feb, 2014 09:53 pm
Quote:
Eat food..

Mostly plants and fruits
Meats in moderation.

The vitamin supplement industry in the USA promotes the use of super-maximum amounts of their products.

Joe(That should tell you something)Nation
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 03:58 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

Quote:
Eat food..

Mostly plants and fruits
Meats in moderation.

The vitamin supplement industry in the USA promotes the use of super-maximum amounts of their products.

Joe(That should tell you something)Nation


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/02/140206133913.htm?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+sciencedaily%2Fhealth_medicine+%28Health+%26+Medicine+News+--+ScienceDaily%29
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 04:24 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
Vitamins only produce Vitamin-enriched urine.

That depends on the vitamin, but it's certainly true for vitamin C. It also depends on your diet. For example, taking supplements for vitamin B12 and folic acid definitely makes sense for vegetarians, especially vegans.

Joe Nation wrote:
Did everyone stop buying and taking them?

Not me. Months ago, I invested $15 in a store-brand, 500-pill box of multivitamin+multimineral pills. The reason was that my bloodwork had revealed deficiencies of several vitamins and minerals. Now I eat one pill a day, which supplies me with roughly half my recommended intake of every vitamin and mineral you can imagine. So even if I did mostly produce vitamin-enriched urine, what would I care? It's a fifteen-bucks-over-five-hundred-days problem. Even if I doubled up on it and got all my recommended intake from pills, I would have bigger fish to fry.
Foofie
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 04:36 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

I expected to see a major controversy arise over calling a multi-billion industry essentially a hoax.



If the teeming masses do not care about other "hoaxes" that play out in their lives, in other venues, vitamin pills are diddly.

When I realized that the religion my family subscribed to was silly, in my opinion, at best, "hoax" was my thinking.

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sun 9 Feb, 2014 05:31 pm
@Thomas,
I remember us talking about that, me having worked in a hematology lab where the boss was an expert on b12 - and, back then, he said meat, or supplements, if you didn't have pernicious anemia. ('70's). . You said there was something else (a fungus?). I believe you, but not sure all vegans/vegetarians know about that..

Tricky if you have pernicious anemia, which tends to show up with antibodies to intrinsic factor and parietal cells, thus messing up b12 absorption.Don't remember what they did about dealing with that, at this point.
0 Replies
 
Bella Dea
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 09:01 pm
I''m in the process of trying to balance my body again after having a total thyroidectomy. You have no idea the kind of havoc this has wrecked upon my health.

There are a lot of vitamins and supplements out there that are a waste of money. Most often, multi vitamins fall into this group.

But as others stated, there are some that can be beneficial.

0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  2  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 09:27 pm
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:

Discuss.

Back in December, as I was getting ready to leave for Canada, I read in the US press several articles about Vitamins not being effective at bringing health benefits to users. I expected to see a major controversy arise over calling a multi-billion industry essentially a hoax.

I've seen nada since.

Did everyone stop buying and taking them?


Joe(My, that's a lovely shade of yellow !) Nation

What study, testing which vitamins, conducted how? Did they study every one of the several hundred major nutritional supplement on the market, at various doses, over a long period of time? Did they study carnosine, resveratrol, benfotiamine, coenzyme Q10?
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Wed 12 Feb, 2014 09:43 pm
@Brandon9000,
Hey, Brandon, how you doin' ?

Here's the link from above : http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=1789253

Joe(That's all I know)Nation
 

Related Topics

Immortality and Doctor Volkov - Discussion by edgarblythe
Sleep Paralysis - Discussion by Nick Ashley
On the edge and toppling off.... - Discussion by Izzie
Surgery--Again - Discussion by Roberta
PTSD, is it caused by a blow to the head? - Question by Rickoshay75
THE GIRL IS ILL - Discussion by Setanta
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Vitamins only produce Vitamin-enriched urine.
Copyright © 2019 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 10/21/2019 at 06:43:41