The present is eternity..

My understanding of Krishnamurti's statement may be not what he intended, but as I understand him, he is stating that all "meaningful" perception is after the fact (this was Nietzsche's position as well). At the very moment of pre-reflective (non-dualistic) experience we do not "see" meaningful perceptions. We ascribe meaning (thought) immediately after its occurence "in time". Now, his reference to pre-reflective experience (which is, by definition, "meaningless and eternal"--out of time) may be meant in contrast to dualism, viz. "conflict" between opposites.
I would like to hear other interpretations of Krishnamurti's statement. My interpretation is very possibly a projection of my own orientation onto Krishnamurti's statement. But as Fresco notes, it is a negotiation of sorts.

True; tomorrow never comes.

JLN,

I'm quite happy with your interpretation.

A seminal work on what he meant is the dialogue with the physicist David Bohm "The Ending of Time" published in book form, and I believe in part on video. (Numerous Google refs)

In my previous post I was referring of course to Earth time measured by its revolving around the sun and spinning on its axis. The idea of the present being eternal is more comprehensible to me beyond earth and its limitations.

Interesting observation, Shepaints. It IS so much easier to image a timeless Eternity away, far away, from the limiting conditions of our planet wherein we must keep appointments, time the boiling of spaghetti, record our ages, etc.. This also applies to some extent to the nature of conceptual dualism. We cannot conceptualize "up" without assuming "down", "good" without "bad", "truth" without "falsehood," etc. etc. But notice, when I look "up" at a flock of birds passing "above" me, this is a relativistic orientation. In outer space there would be no up or down, unless I'm using the "downness" of the floor of my spacecraft to define the "upness" of the spacecraft's ceiling. Even on earth, I can (absolutistically and non-dualistically) look at the birds without thinking "up". I'm just looking at them--at least until I (relativistically) THINK of "looking up."
This suggests that all (pre-reflective) experience is inherently absolutistic and all mundane (naive realistic) thinking is relativistic.

JL....I can't grasp your last sentence.....trying
to formulate a response!

Gee, jlN;

i might have said that; not quite so succinctly perhaps, but all that 'stuff' about 'polarity' - its "MINE" - mine i tell you!!!!!..........

BGW, just take it, but don't hurt me!!!

the only thing you can own is your ego, the thing within you that knows ownership. And it, in turn, owns you...

Cryzcuz, I agree. We are owned by our egos; they are forms of obsession (some might even say addiction). And many forms of religion emphasize that the ego is an illusion. If this is so, then we own nothing (as you suggest) and nothing owns us. Such freedom, particularly from the greed of "desire" (Buddhist attachment). If only my ego knows ownership (I agree with you there) and the ego is illusory, we should be free from greed. This is one reason, I think, that the mystically mature are peaceful and harmless (generous and non-competitive) people and not in need of the fear of Hell to keep them that way.

I agree with you JL. It is an ancient cliche that the things you own end up owning you. I think trouble begins when we try to define ourselves by what we have, and what we do for a living, and how successful we are. These standards, that are forced upon us by the society we live in, are great barriers against spiritual growth. Fashion, you might say, is the proverbial devil. We are encouraged to nourish our egos and excel in any way that we can. We become blinded by seemingly endless possibillities, and forget what we need in the face of what we might have. But despite all this i remain optimistic. Humanity is still in childhood, and as long as we can manage to survive we will be all right..

I'm sorry, I'm still not sure what entropy is, but as far as I've heard isn't it just the inclination of disorder? The tendency to become chaos. Life for example does not obey the strict application of entropy. However, my physics teacher did say that it does not contradict one another, for entropy includes the possibility for matter to construct itself orderly (evenly over a greater field in space).

But back to the topic,
I see time as a spiral isn't mentioned (I never did think about that theory either) and a circle isn't conceiver here either(unless you see it as eternity), which is all great but Einstein at one point stated that time and space are just the measurements we use for now to see the world (reality, which is only an illusion, albeit a persistent one
So even after the events have unfolded, there still is no objective truth just because you're not in the situation(moment in time) anymore. Because you can't be 'after' time, maybe outside of time. But if you were never 'inside' of time. Or let's leave the abstract for a moment,
if you never experienced the moment, how can you later on state an objective truth of it? Is your point of view in that moment which we are trying to define objectively automatically invalid? Do you at least agree that it is needed to form a later statement? I suppose you do, but you probably won't agree that it's equally true (relativism, all points are equally true, is flawed). Nevertheless, how can any objective overview be established without having experienced (and therefor fully comprehending) all subjective aspects of the subject?

These are the incoherent thoughts which come to me after reading this topic

Sorry to be so practical, but if you have ever
had children, time is certainly very linear. It unfolds and is embodied by their progression from tiny helpless beings to capable adults...This is not illusory at all........The present, though, is like oxygen.... always there and we take it for granted....despite our fears for its future.....

Interesting, Shepaints. The growth-transformation of children is a great illustration of linear time, even though I would persist in describing it as change in the present. But I WAS tempted, I admit.

growth is an admittedly linear phenomena, based upon consumption of material, and information, and reactions, both mental and physical to those intakes.

It demonstrates, at all times, most definitely, a relationship to the universe, which is constantly growing.

While the 'time'frame for this individual life'time' is infinitesimal, on a cosmic scale (say 'dT' ) it is of course 'progressive.

My point is that time is a measuring device which defines change, and growth, not an entity in itself.

As an object/being moves from 'place' to 'place in the universe this 'relationship' can be measured in temporal terms.
As a being matures in the universe this 'relationship' can be measured in temporal terms.

Very good, BoGoWo. So, time is a tool, and our "sense" of the age and duration of things and processes is an artifact of our use of this tool (?)

"The growth-transformation of children is a great illustration of linear time, even though I would persist in describing it as change in the present. But I WAS tempted, I admit"......JL


Alright, Nobody, one last try at this! The present as eternity (in a non-linear format) is a continually changing multi-faceted kaleidoscope!

ah, 'temptation';

an end in itself!

I don't know how to respond to your metaphor: kaleidoscope. How are its many faceted-ness related to the changing present?

Cyracuz said "In this way the present is eternal. We, and by we I mean evolution, move through this present, constantly altering, constantly reverberating, our hopes and memories expanding. We call it time, but it is not. It is change, and it is within us."

JL said, "Yet the pond is always changing, with waves and movements of the water. It is not static, there is change in the present but there is not movement from past to future, just a dynamic eternal Now>"

The kaleidesope is the same sort of image.... change in the present, every facet of the universe is constantly changing....every component of the kaleidescope is constantly changing....

Actually, I think the pond water is washing over my head in this discussion! I'm drowning!