Porn - degrading to women? or"the all you can eat salad bar"

What happens if you later find out that one wasn't made with willing actors?

So when the Iraqis get paid off, as they undoubtedly will, then they shouldn't care about their treatment?

It is based on my preferences for entertainment. It is a simple simple enough concept -- I am not entertained by watching someone else having sex.

I assumed that you must enjoy these films. You don't? <shrug> Oh good, then we agree on something.

I think both are a symptom of a sick society.

I'm going to attempt to answer without reading the articles cited and then read to see if my opinion changes.

First, yes, I find pornography degrading to both men and women. I don't think it is possible to view pornography, especially graphic weird stuff, and not have it degrade ones self in some way, not just the degrading of others. Just that those pictures are in your memory taking up valuable space is degrading to my mind. In other words, I have better things to store in my memory

I can't imagine the porn stars having high self esteem, or otherwise feeling good about themselves at the end of the day. They may have money, but where is their dignity? At what cost?

Once viewed, it does seem to me that it would have an effect on interactions with others. It may not mean that rapes increase, or that everyone suddenly buys clown outfits and leather whips. But at some point I would think that it would become a stimulant replacement that takes away from the loving act that sex is supposed to be between two people. Kinda like the old punchline "Eat, eat, eat. Doesn't anyone want to f any more?" When it takes more and more "weird stuff' to stimulate one sexually, what happens to "making love?" (Okay, maybe I'm a hopeless romantic!)

I referred to someone the other day as a "gal" and littlest cub (male) said "Mom, you said Gal. Isn't that a little disrespectful?" Now, you know Bear didn't teach him that, and I never would have thought to since I don't usually talk that way, but he must have been taught it somewhere. If a 13 year old knows that referring to an older female as a Gal is disrespectful, imagine if he knew about graphic pornography. At what point does the downhill slide to immoral, anything goes start and end? At what point do we draw the line as to how we show (and teach) respect for other human beings?

I'll go read the articles now, but my stance at this time is that yes, it is degrading and that it does have a negative affect on society. We may have discovery channel, but that doesn't mean we have to act and treat others like animals. Even assuming the "stars" of such films choose to participate, it is the market place that decides it is an acceptable behavior / profession, and in my opinion it shouldn't be.

Piffka wrote:

But who is to say how many porn "artists" don't feel forced or coerced?

The porn artists themselves.

My daddy was a cop on the east side of Chicago
Back in the U.S.A. back in the bad old days

My attitude does not come from any moral absolute, nor is it based on what you refer to as extremist feminism. It is based on my preferences for entertainment. It is a simple simple enough concept -- I am not entertained by watching someone else having sex.

Perhaps that's because, while we both agree that there are moral absolutes, we disagree on what constitutes those absolutes.

Your moral absolutes, for instance, seem to be fundamentally premised on your subjective feelings of repulsion. In other words, if something is high on your "ick factor" (e.g. anal-oral contact), then it's immoral. Your purely personal levels of disgust, however, provide no compelling moral criteria for me.

Apart from the above-mentioned "ick factor," what is the rational distinction between oral-anal contact and oral-genital contact?

Fine but I'm saying that just as you wouldn't do A2M for certain reasons, nor should others, and for those who do we appropriately label as engaging in debauchery and assume that that participation of this behaviour is driven by pathological psychology rather than mere curiosity, biological necessity, or reason based appropriateness.

My ick factor is based on being reasonable, ie, I don't think there's any sane justification for A2M/beastiality, therefore I'm opposed to it.....what's your criteria, IOW, justify why those behaviours are reasonable or join me in my truth crusade, lol.

Im mainly refering to a penis going from the ass to the mouth.....do I have to explain why that's ****ed up?

There's nothing particulary wrong with oral sex, as you're not consuming excrement or urine in the process.{btw, urine and semen are PH opposites...I thought you'd like to know that}

In a nutshell Joe, you're either replused by the notion of someone eating ****, or perhaps have some desire for the activity

<snip>

So you need to tell us your thoughts on devouring feces...we're all eagerly waiting

Sorry Joe, but you're not allowing me to be reasonable, ie, you've decided that any emotional response is outlawed as that's not a rational way to judge behaviour....thinking and feeling co-define each other, adult emotions are automated responses to previously formed value judgements....so if I investigate the intellectual origin of my revulsion, and conclude it was sound, then I'm being reasonable assigning replusive behaviours as debauchery.

Also you say that your own views are not relevent to this discussion as though the pathological have sovereignty over what constitutes reasonable behaviour.

In a nutshell Joe, you're either replused by the notion of someone eating ****, or perhaps have some desire for the activity...

...remember, my attempt is the formation of what would constitute rational behavior and what would constitute irrational behaviour WRT porn.

So you need to tell us your thoughts on devouring feces...we're all eagerly waiting

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That's not an argument that is going to hold any kind of water. I'm sure Joe or Craven can give the details of what kind of fallacy it is.