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Shall we grovel?

 
 
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 10:45 am
Shall we grovel?

At least now we know where John Kerry is meeting these unnamed foreign luminaries: "I mean, you can go to New York City and you can be in a restaurant and you can meet a foreign leader," he said on "Meet the Press."

Happens to us all, you know; one moment you're at Denny's garnishing your hamburger, and the next you have the Guatemalan undersecretary for bauxite slapping you on the back and expressing a fervent desire for your victory. You nod, you smile, you play along. And he goes on and on about Kyoto until you note that while you're all for fighting global warming, your meal is growing cold. If you don't mind? Gracias.

In the same interview, Kerry repeated his constant campaign theme: his intention to drop to one knee, Jolson-style, in the United Nations General Assembly and beg for forgiveness. "Within weeks of being inaugurated, I will return to the U.N. and I will literally, formally rejoin the community of nations and turn over a proud new chapter in America's relationship with the world."

It plays to the base. The left is terribly worried about what the popular kids are saying about them in the United Nations. "We've alienated the world! For heaven's sake, we've alienated China! Oh, and Free Tibet!" The right couldn't care less, but what can you expect out of a party that would rather get married to Great Britain than have an affair with France? The undecided middle -- defined at this point as "people who aren't paying attention" -- is waiting to learn why we'd be safer trusting an organization whose response to Rwanda was to send not armies, but condolences. And even that took years.

One suspects that the number of undecided Americans may be fewer this week than the last -- at least if they heard about the U.N. reaction to Israel's ballistic dismissal of Abdel Aziz Rantisi, Hamas' leader-of-the-week. What a loathsome man he was. A architect of death and terror. Religious bigot, child-killer, slaughterer of fellow Arabs. Israel finally takes him out. The United Nations springs into action -- to consider a resolution to condemn the attack.

It was "extra-judicial," you see. Contrary to "international law." In the mind of a Eurocrat, whose paycheck demands belief in these ephemeral concepts, these are grave charges. To your average American, however, the strike on Rantisi was like a strike on Osama bin Laden. Anyone whose main objection to the death of a terrorist is its "extra-judicial" nature has odd priorities, particularly in wartime.

It's as if U.N. groupies think we should prop up "international law" so it'll be our shield when the tides turn against the West. As if a triumphant Hamas would petition The Hague for the right to exterminate the Jews before the final pogrom began.

A reminder of what Rantisi was saying before he took the express elevator below:

"We say to the Muslim people of Iraq, we are with you in your struggle against the American terror and destruction, we are with you in your war in defense of Islam. We say to the fighter and commander Moqtada al-Sadr: Hamas stands by your side and blesses your jihad and wishes you with the help of God, that you will win and be victorious."

Somewhere in that nuanced, reasoned assessment, you get the idea that he thinks they're at war with us.

John Kerry said he supported the strike on Rantisi. Good for him.

But he seems to think that the era of American strength will begin with an apology. He seems to think that the key to the Arab heart is spending more money on sub-Saharan AIDS programs. He seems to think that we can be both strong and loved. Imagine the look on President Kerry's face when he realizes that every pledge of goodwill and money evaporated in an afternoon because he blocked a U.N. condemnation of an Israeli strike on the Iranian nuclear facilities. But -- but -- I thought we were friends again!

Nations have no friends. Nations have interests.

That has to be true; some person said it.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,059 • Replies: 49
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 10:48 am
Re: Shall we grovel?
McGentrix wrote:
Nations have no friends. Nations have interests.

That has to be true; a Frenchman said it.


And I -stupid me- always thought, Bismarck had been German. (I admit: "Otto Eduard Leopold von Bismarck" sounds froggy :wink: )
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dagmaraka
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:00 am
Quote from the article: "The undecided middle -- defined at this point as "people who aren't paying attention" -- is waiting to learn why we'd be safer trusting an organization whose response to Rwanda was to send not armies, but condolences. And even that took years. "
Ummm, who was that who vetoed the mandate for Dallaire to act in Rwanda on the UN Security Council? USA? How funny, the whole UN inability to act just looks different when you realize that. But that fallacy is not an exception of this article, it seems to be the rule. The bad useless immoral UN. How useful.
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Tarantulas
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:04 am
I just searched for the original quote. It's most ,often stated as "Nations have interests. not friends." It's attributed to Bismarck and also to Winston Churchill, Charles de Gaulle, David Ben-Gurion, and Henry Kissinger. The Internet is a wonderful thing - you can find almost any "fact" you want, and if you don't like it, search a different website and you can probably find another version. Wink
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panzade
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:07 am
Tar, the internet is a wonderful thing only if you have the smarts to wade through the info.

Winston Churchill, Charles de Gaulle, David Ben-Gurion, and Henry Kissinger

Notice how these guys all lived around the same time?

And how Bismark lived in the previous century?

Get it?
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:08 am
Adapted: "Those are the facts as I know them. If you do not like them I have others."
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:10 am
Well, Tarantulas, when you look up, who lived when, and when you notice what Bismarck said(originally in German, of course): "Nationen haben Interessen, keine Freunde" = nations have interests, no friends", you certainly are right.

(De Gaulle, btw, quoted Bismarck, when saying such - although he spoke French, not German.)
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cavfancier
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:13 am
I thought the Bismarck was a boat...and that it was sunk...imagine there was a real Bismarck. The 'net is indeed a floodgate of information.
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McGentrix
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:13 am
Is that really the important part of the article?

I mean really, who gives a rat sh*t who said it?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:19 am
McGentrix wrote:
Is that really the important part of the article?

I mean really, who gives a rat sh*t who said it?


That's right, McGentrix.

On the other hand, it shows a lot about the person, who wrote that article.
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cavfancier
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:21 am
Seems to me the point of the article, with McG's usual spin-doctoring, is that the USA should just have free reign to trounce any country they want, without having to answer to anyone, or justify their actions. Rolling Eyes Whatever. Whether or not the war in Iraq was justified, we are there now, and have a problem to solve. As for the "undecided middle", well, buy them some focus for Christmas, or move to a three-party system already.
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Tarantulas
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:22 am
Actually, a Frenchman DID say that. And an Englishman, and an Israeli...

Panzade, your post is insulting. Knock it off.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:27 am
The point of view being espoused in that article can be summed up by a bumper sticker I saw the other day. It was, of course, pasted onto an expensive gas guzzler vehicle:

To hell with our enemies:
God bless America!
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Jer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:34 am
falls in line with one I saw a few weeks ago:

If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough!
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:40 am
You're quite right Tar. I apologize. It was patronizing and wrong
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:44 am
What irks me Tar is that the column writer in N'Olans can't even verify a quote, a quote that sums up the article. And then to top it off, McG goes and edits his thesis and takes Frenchman out. Are we supposed to be fooled?
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Tarantulas
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:46 am
No. Just let it go and move on, unless your goal is to provide continuous harrassment.
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Jer
 
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Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:55 am
harassment!????
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:56 am
panzade wrote:
What irks me Tar is that the column writer in N'Olans can't even verify a quote, a quote that sums up the article. And then to top it off, McG goes and edits his thesis and takes Frenchman out. Are we supposed to be fooled?


I edited it because it wasn't important to the article and too many were focusing on a quote than the article. Much like Tarantulas' article regarding WMD from Syria. Compare the responses to the title with what was actually discussed about the article.

Too many focusing on the unimportant.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Apr, 2004 11:57 am
Whoaaaaa....back the truck up. In the short time I've been here you've been a poster boy for "continuous harrassment" . Let me remind you that we've just left the site of your WMD headline fiasco. A headline that was completely discredited.
All I'm asking is that the thread poster stand behind the thesis and the headline. If it's bogus, I'll reserve the right to shoot it full of holes....so there!

NYAH!
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