21
   

Kids and Guns by the Numbers

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2014 09:35 pm
@BillRM,
So let me see.... You don't have actual numbers of how many people die in home pools. You decided to make an argument with made up numbers it seems.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Feb, 2014 10:15 pm
@parados,
Oh?

Percent of pool downing compare to all drowning locations by age range already given by me in other postings.

Link to the 2010 ranking of deaths by age group and the number of deaths given below.

http://www.cdc.gov/injury/wisqars/pdf/10lcid_unintentional_deaths_2010-a.pdf

Take note by the given link deaths by drowning of 1 to 4 years old is the number one cause of injury deaths at 436 for example.

By other CDC information already given most to the 436 death will be in pools at that age range.

So it is safe to say that at least 400 plus children a year of the age range of 1 to 4 die in pools.

Repeat the same for all the age range given and you will come up with a fairly good numbers.

footnote all homicides firearms or otherwise in the age range of 1 to 4 total 163 must less then pool drownings.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 02:14 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Keep you the false analogies Lordy. It isn't going to work. You can't limit things in the law especially the Constitution because of kids. If that were the case, then certain types of "fake" child porn would be outlawed. Except the SCOTUS said that since it wasn't real, there could be no limitations, and people claimed that it would lead to the abuse of more children, but the SCOTUS said that didn't matter. We can't limit free speech in adults because children could be effected by it. The same goes for the 2nd Amendment.
Point of Information: What is fake porn ??
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 09:14 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Percent of pool downing compare to all drowning locations by age range already given by me in other postings.

Which tells us nothing about which pools were in homes and which ones were public pools. Again, you are just making up numbers about drownings in home pools

The CDC reports that 19% of drowning deaths for children are in pools with life guards which means that almost half of the pool deaths aren't in home pools. Over half of the drownings are in natural settings. That means at most 30% could be in home pools but we haven't included bath tubs, 5 gallon buckets or public pools without lifeguards yet.

Quote:
footnote all homicides firearms or otherwise in the age range of 1 to 4 total 163 must less then pool drownings.
You changing your argument from home pools now? Or are you arguing that all children 19 and under are really in the 1 to 4 age range?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 09:21 am
@BillRM,
Let's face reality here Bill. Pools are far safer than guns for children under 19. Guns kill far more kids than pools do. Your attempt to restrict it to accidental deaths is nothing but a red herring to avoid the lethal combination of kids and guns.

You refuse to allow numbers of homicide in gun deaths even if the child killed was not the intended target.

Maybe we should compare gun homicides to pool homicides.
That should tell us which is safer to be around.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 11:02 am
@parados,
Quote:
You changing your argument from home pools now? Or are you arguing that all children 19 and under are really in the 1 to 4 age range?


To me late teenagers are not children and after 18 are not legally children.

Seventeen years old for example can be US Marines and late teens years children can be charge as adults in most US states.

Once more gun deaths of late teens are of not the same issue as young children being accidental kill by household guns.

The subject was the danger to young children of having guns in a household compare to swimming pools in the back yards not late teens joining gangs and getting themselves kill in that manner.

Too sum up having guns in a household with young children is a minor risk compare to having a backyard swimming pool.

Enjoy blowing smoke but I question if too many are being blind by your smoke clouds.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 12:30 pm
@BillRM,
So you are arguing that only 1-4 year olds count as children then?
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 12:46 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
Too sum up having guns in a household with young children is a minor risk compare to having a backyard swimming pool.

Actually that is not true.

More children are shot and killed with a gun by their parent than drowned by a parent in a backyard swimming pool.
About 200 children under 12 die from guns every year. According to Mother Jones, last year 127 children under 12 died in their own home from guns. Another 30-40 died in someone else's home.

Maybe 250 under the age of 14 died from drowning in a home pool which could be at anyone's home.
That means your comparison is 250 vs 150-170. One risk isn't minor compared to another. We require safety equipment be installed on every home pool. Shouldn't we require safety equipment be installed on every gun?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 12:53 pm
Mother Jones has pictures and stories of the 194 children 12 or under killed by guns last year.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/12/children-killed-guns-after-newtown-portraits
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 01:05 pm
@parados,
Quote:
More children are shot and killed with a gun by their parent than drowned by a parent in a backyard swimming pool.


My lord you are talking about homicides of children by parents not accidental deaths now!!!!!!!!!!!

Most young children are killed by parents without any need of firearms as simply shaking a infant/children or placing a pillow over their heads will do but once more that is not the subject at hand.

Young child get a hold of family firearm and killed himself or some other member of the household get shot by the child playing with firearms or someone else in household accidentally killed a child with a household firearms and how that kind of deaths compare to swimming pool accidents.

To sum up you can not be this dumb so you are clearly playing silly games.

Baldimo
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 01:08 pm
@parados,
So more kids died in swimming pools at home, then were shot in the home?

Wasn't that the point of Bill's original post?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 01:34 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

So more kids died in swimming pools at home, then were shot in the home?

Wasn't that the point of Bill's original post?

Only if you redefine children to 0-12. If we include all children under 18 more people die from guns than from back yard swimming pools.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 01:36 pm
@BillRM,
I see you decided to ignore the rest of my post and concentrate on only one sentence.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 03:04 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
So more kids died in swimming pools at home, then were shot in the home?

Wasn't that the point of Bill's original post?
I think it was.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 03:10 pm
@parados,
Baldimo wrote:
So more kids died in swimming pools at home, then were shot in the home?

Wasn't that the point of Bill's original post?
parados wrote:
Only if you redefine children to 0-12.
If we include all children under 18 more people die from guns
than from back yard swimming pools.
U introduce CONFUSION, by mixing swimming pool deaths (i.e., accidents)
with deaths from gunfire, even including morally proper suicides
and good, admirable defensive homicides , plus accidents,
plus criminal violence (e.g., drug gang warfare). That 's not fair.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 03:14 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Quote:
U introduce CONFUSION, by mixing swimming pool deaths (i.e., accidents)
with deaths from gunfire, even including morally proper suicides
and good, admirable defensive homicides, plus accidents. That 's not fair.


That game playing in my opinion as it is clear that the danger to children is a great deal higher from having a backyard swimming pool then household firearms as far as accidental deaths is concern and he is not willing to admit that fact.
parados
 
  2  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 03:47 pm
@BillRM,
I'll be happy to admit that danger from backyard swimming pools is greater for accidental deaths for children 1-4.

Are you willing to admit that for persons 19 and younger the overall danger from guns is greater than any danger from swimming pools?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Feb, 2014 10:57 pm
@BillRM,
DAVID wrote:
U introduce CONFUSION, by mixing swimming pool deaths (i.e., accidents)
with deaths from gunfire, even including morally proper suicides
and good, admirable defensive homicides, plus accidents. That 's not fair.
BillRM wrote:
That game playing in my opinion as it is clear that the danger to children
is a great deal higher from having a backyard swimming pool then
household firearms as far as accidental deaths is concern and
he is not willing to admit that fact.
To the bath tub & swimming pool deaths,
logically u must add deaths in feral water.

Did Mr. Parados remember to add in those?????

In other words, to be fair:
compare dangers to youth of death from DROWNING,
compared to deaths of youth by accidental gunfire.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Feb, 2014 07:15 am
@OmSigDAVID,
The most common place for infants to drown is a bath tub. Infants are commonly classified as children.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 Feb, 2014 01:05 am
@parados,
parados wrote:
The most common place for infants to drown is a bath tub.
Infants are commonly classified as children.
I re-iterate that accidental deaths
shud be separated from deaths from malice.
 

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