21
   

Kids and Guns by the Numbers

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 10:31 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
Good point, Baldimo.

I see what you mean.
They could be making the accidental deaths of those children
sound a lot worse than what it actually is.

My mind is now at rest.
Do u also see
that these alleged "children" are up to and including 24 years old,
as the leftists have defined them?????????

24 year old violent drug gang members, that the left deceptively
characterizes as being "children"

Yes; indeed it has been made to sound
a lot worse than it is.
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 10:36 am
@Lordyaswas,
I
Quote:
f they were European children, then my concern would go through the roof as I would be able to at least try through the ballot box to get things changed


Is your concern through the roof over unneeded drowning deaths of children in Europe in far far greater numbers then accidental guns deaths of children in the US and are you using your ballot to take actions to reduce those deaths?

Is deaths by a gun shot wounds any worst then deaths by drowning?

Why do you not try to be honest with yourself at least as it is not a safety issue to you of children American or Europeans children as that is just a weak excuse to justify your dislike of private gun ownership.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 10:50 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Phew again!

I knew there was no need to worry. Thsnks, General.

Tell me something though. Why do they count kids right up to 24 year olds in America?

Is it a mental age thing, by any chance?

Understandable I suppose, but it does skew the figures somewhat.

Just out of interest, do you have the accurate figures on how many genuine American children were slaughtered?

Just wondering.
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 10:53 am
@Lordyaswas,
Oh the children! This is such a disingenuous response to guns. As Bill pointed out, we have other things in the US that kill more kids then guns do, but no one wants to talk about those things, it is just the guns.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 10:55 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

I
Quote:
f they were European children, then my concern would go through the roof as I would be able to at least try through the ballot box to get things changed


Is your concern through the roof over unneeded drowning deaths of children in Europe in far far greater numbers then accidental guns deaths of children in the US and are you using your ballot to take actions to reduce those deaths?

Is deaths by a gun shot wounds any worst then deaths by drowning?

Why do you not try to be honest with yourself at least as it is not a safety issue to you of children American or Europeans children as that is just a weak excuse to justify your dislike of private gun ownership.


I have absolutely no idea why you are getting your little knickers in such a twist over all this, Billy Bob.
It's only American kids that I'm showing disinterest in, and the disinterest only extends to accidental gun death. Nothing to do whatsoever with your deflection attempt. The last thing I would want to do is to collude with your attempted derailment.

Carry on, but please try to calm down old boy. It's only a few deaths, after all. Nothing to get upset about.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 10:57 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

Oh the children! This is such a disingenuous response to guns. As Bill pointed out, we have other things in the US that kill more kids then guns do, but no one wants to talk about those things, it is just the guns.

That's what I've been trying to say all along, baldy.

I really don't know what these boys are getting so worked up about.

Can you have a word, and ask them to cool it a bit?

They'll be busting a gasket if they're not careful.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 11:09 am
Hang on a minute. Can you check your figures again, General? As the stats from the opening post on this thread are counting those under 18.

From opening post.....

"1,337 The number of American kids under age 18 who died from gunshot wounds in 2010. This is trending down from 1,490 in 2005 and 1,544 in 2000. (CDC)

7,391 The number of American kids and teens under age 20 who were hospitalized from firearm injuries in 2009. That means that on average a child or teen is shot almost every hour. (Yale School of Medicine)

98 The number of American kids under age 18 who died from accidental shootings in 2010. This is trending down from 150 deaths in 2000 and 417 deaths in 1990. (CDC)......"

It seems like you good ol' boys are doing not just a little bit better than Al Qaeda, but a hell of a lot better.
Them old A-Rabs are gonna be sending you performance bonuses next.
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 11:28 am
@Lordyaswas,
That is the type of comment that are getting people riled up. You are claiming like the rest of the anti-gun people, that if you don't do gun control for the children, that you don't care about children. It's a false analogy that people take offense too.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 11:39 am
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:

That is the type of comment that are getting people riled up. You are claiming like the rest of the anti-gun people, that if you don't do gun control for the children, that you don't care about children. It's a false analogy that people take offense too.


Let's get this straight, Baldy. A comment or two from me is getting people riled up. The fact that numerous American children having their heads blown off is not.

OKaaaaaay!

I don' t really care, but am curious all the same.....so tell me, and the General and Billy Bob are welcome to put a figure on it as well if they care enough about your children.
How many American kids would have to have their brains splattered accidentally over the course of twelve months before you would get riled up about that?

2000? 5000?

Another question for one of you heroes. Any of you in the NRA?

If so, why not ask your chief lobbyist how often he receives a money order from Sheik Al-Qaida? , with a little handwritten note at the bottom saying 'very well done, my effendi brother. Keep up the good work'
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 11:52 am
@Lordyaswas,
Keep you the false analogies Lordy. It isn't going to work. You can't limit things in the law especially the Constitution because of kids. If that were the case, then certain types of "fake" child porn would be outlawed. Except the SCOTUS said that since it wasn't real, there could be no limitations, and people claimed that it would lead to the abuse of more children, but the SCOTUS said that didn't matter. We can't limit free speech in adults because children could be effected by it. The same goes for the 2nd Amendment.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 12:07 pm
@Baldimo,
So, like I say. Keep up the good work.


http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

And it seems that here in Britain, we know how to keep guns safely, as you never know, a kid might get hold of one!.....
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/dan-ehrlich/uk-gun-ownership-up-deaths-down_b_1209967.html

Snippet..."Gun deaths last year in the UK at 51 were down by 18 percent , yet private gun ownership continues to grow with 1.8 million legally held. Obviously there's no way of telling how many illegal guns are in circulation. But, before you begin yelling for even tighter gun laws, compare this to the annual American bloodbath.
In 2010 there were 12,996 murders in the US. Of those, 8,775 were caused by firearms. But, that figure is small compared to accidental shooting deaths which brings the annual total to more than 30,000.http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2011/jan/10/gun-crime-us-state

The fact is gun ownership to millions of Americans has become sort of an obsessive-compulsive disorder, almost a reason to be alive...or dead.

The offensive defensive posture of the gun lobby and right wing politicians in the wake of the Tucson bloodbath, in which six people died, points out how sensitive and militant these hardy frontier characters are in their pick-ups and RVs. Just give them a gun rack and a "proud to be an American" sticker for the rear bumper of their Japanese car and its almost like being in heaven...a destination some may annually reach...."
Baldimo
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 12:13 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Ok I'm done with you. Have fun.
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 12:23 pm
@Baldimo,
I was just about to say the same, baldy.

I have far better things to do than to preach to the unconvertable.

The General obviously has the gun OCD going on, and between you and me, I'm pretty sure that Billy Bob just likes guns because they help him get hard.
The American kids thing is just a by product of all that macho madness, when all is said and done.

I still say that the efforts of the NRA cause many more American deaths than them nasty A-Rabs, though.
At least our kids are pretty much guaranteeed a long and happy gun free life on the whole.

Bye General. Bye Billy Bob


I'm now going to rustle up a masterpiece in the kitchen........

If you hear a loud bang, it will be my Chilli.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 12:31 pm
@Lordyaswas,
"
Quote:
1,337 The number of American kids under age 18 who died from gunshot wounds in 2010. This is trending down from 1,490 in 2005 and 1,544 in 2000. (CDC)

7,391 The number of American kids and teens under age 20 who were hospitalized from firearm injuries in 2009. That means that on average a child or teen is shot almost every hour. (Yale School of Medicine)


Hmm KIDS as in late teens gang bangers?

See the war on drugs and the funding of drug street gangs and that is not the same as innocent children being killed in homes.

No one is going to be disarming those gangs members anymore then gun laws of Mexico had disarmed there drug gangs as there is far too must money involved.

Cut the funding to the drugs gangs by ending the "war" on drugs and the death rate would drop sharply with no need to write one more gun law.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 01:23 pm
@BillRM,
Bill,

I am curious how many kids died in backyard pools according to the CDC. Can you please tell me where to find that number because CDC only lists drownings and not where the drowning occurred. Lakes, oceans and bath tubs are places people drown more often than they do in swimming pools.

Quote:
Hmm it would seems that you are killing your little ones in must larger numbers in pools then are killed by guns in US homes yearly.
Sorry Bill but that is unsupported by CDC statistics. Guns kill far more people than pools do.
In 2009 there were 983 persons under the age of 20 that drowned. (Less than half of those would have died in a pool.)
In 2010 there were 2,711 persons under the age of 20 that were killed by a gun.

edited to reflect 0-19 in age, not under the age of 19.
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 02:44 pm
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:
Phew again!

I knew there was no need to worry. Thsnks, General.
May I know your rationale
qua the attribution of that rank or title to me?





Lordyaswas wrote:
Tell me something though.
Why do they count kids right up to 24 year olds in America?
It is to invest their anti-liberty propaganda
with more poignancy to cause popular decisions
to be based upon emotion, rather than dispassionate analysis.




Lordyaswas wrote:
Is it a mental age thing, by any chance?
No.
There have been no studies to ascertain the relative I.Q.s
of these pharmaceutical militiamen.





Lordyaswas wrote:
Understandable I suppose, but it does skew the figures somewhat.

Just out of interest, do you have the accurate figures
on how many genuine American children were slaughtered?

Just wondering.
No. I had a few books addressing statistics,
but thay were lost in a fire and have not yet been replaced.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 02:45 pm
@Baldimo,
Baldimo wrote:
Oh the children! This is such a disingenuous response to guns. As Bill pointed out,
we have other things in the US that kill more kids then guns do, but no one wants to talk about those things, it is just the guns.
It is a convenient excuse.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 02:57 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Quote:
Hmm it would seems that you are killing your little ones in must larger numbers in pools then are killed by guns in US homes yearly.
Sorry Bill but that is unsupported by CDC statistics. Guns kill far more people than pools do.
In 2009 there were 983 persons under the age of 20 that drowned. (Less than half of those would have died in a pool.)
In 2010 there were 2,711 persons under the age of 20 that were killed by a gun.

edited to reflect 0-19 in age, not under the age of 19.
I suspect that u r confusing the statistic for ACCIDENTAL deaths,
as distinct from deaths resulting from intentional use.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 03:07 pm
@parados,
Quote:
In 2010 there were 2,711 persons under the age of 20 that were killed by a gun.


First and foremost we are talking about accidents deaths of children due to firearms in homes compare to pools and such drownings not all cases of deaths by firearms of persons below 20.

A 16 to 20 years old armed gangbanger is not the same as an 8 years old playing with a household firearm who ended up killing himself or someone else.

To deal with drug gangs and the deaths due to that source of violence need an approach having very very little to do with family firearms.


Drowning locations...........by CDC.

Quote:

http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html

Location: People of different ages drown in different locations. For example, most children ages 1-4 drown in home swimming pools.2 The percentage of drownings in natural water settings, including lakes, rivers and oceans, increases with age.2 More than half of fatal and nonfatal drownings among those 15 years and older (57% and 57% respectively) occurred in natural water settings.2
Reference Laosee, OC, Gilchrist, J, Rudd, R. Drowning 2005-2009. MMWR 2012; 61(19):344-347.



Quote:
in 2004, there were 3,308 unintentional drownings in the United States, an average of nine people per day.(CDC 2006)
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

In 2004, of all children 1-4 years old who died, 26% died from drowning (CDC 2006). Fatal drowning remains the second-leading cause of unintentional injury-related death for children ages 1 to 14 years (CDC 2005)

U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

It is estimated that for each drowning death, there are 1 to 4 nonfatal submersions serious enough to result in hospitalization. Children who still require cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) at the time they arrive at the emergency department have a poor prognosis, with at least half of survivors suffering significant neurologic impairment.

American Academy of Pediatrics

19% of drowning deaths involving children occur in public pools with certified lifeguards present.
Drowning Prevention Foundation

A swimming pool is 14 times more likely than a motor vehicle to be involved in the death of a child age 4 and under.
Orange County California Fire Authority

Children under five and adolescents between the ages of 15-24 have the highest drowning rates.
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

An estimated 5,000 children ages 14 and under are hospitalized due to unintentional drowning-related incidents each year; 15 percent die in the hospital and as many as 20 percent suffer severe, permanent neurological disability.

National Safety Council

Of all preschoolers who drown, 70 percent are in the care of one or both parents at the time of the drowning and 75 percent are missing from sight for five minutes or less.

Orange County, CA, Fire Authority

The majority of children who survive (92 percent) are discovered within two minutes following submersion, and most children who die (86 percent) are found after 10 minutes. Nearly all who require cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) die or are left with severe brain injury.

National Safe Kids Campaign

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Feb, 2014 09:36 pm


Quote:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/weekly/aa070901a.htm

Where U.S. Children Drown

Part 1: First ever statistical report on child drownings


About 1,500 children drown each year in the US according to a new report from the National Institutes of Health that reveals some interesting facts and trends about these often preventable tragedies.

According to the report funded by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD), toddlers and adolescent males face the greatest risk of drowning. Among the adolescent males, rates were higher for African Americans than whites.

"This work shows that drowning is still a big problem, despite being very preventable," said Duane Alexander, M.D., Director of the NICHD. "These national data will greatly assist researchers in understanding where and how these deaths occur and in designing effective programs to prevent drowning."

Published in the July issue of Pediatrics, the research is the first to reveal data on where American children tend to drown.

Most infants drown in bathtubs, toddlers in swimming pools, and older children in various freshwater locations like rivers and lakes.

"While toddlers were most likely to drown in swimming pools and adolescent males in other freshwater sites, the reality is more complex," said the study's lead author, Ruth Brenner, M.D., M.P.H., of NICHD's Division of Epidemiology, Statistics, and Prevention Research. "Toddlers are also drowning in other freshwater sites like ponds, lakes, and rivers, and, after five years of age, about a third of drownings among African American males are in swimming pools."

Research was based on death certificates of 1,420 children under 20 years old who died by unintentional drowning in 1995. The researchers grouped specific drowning sites into four categories: artificial pools (swimming pools and hot tubs), freshwater bodies (lakes, ponds, rivers, canals and other specified sites), domestic sites (primarily bathtubs and buckets), and salt water.

Thirty-seven percent of children who drowned were between one and four years old, and 29 percent were between 15 and 19 years old. Seventy-four percent of children who drowned were male.

Among the 1,420 child drowning deaths studied by the National Institute of Child Health and Human Development (NICHD), 78 percent of the infants drowned at home. Victims between one and four years of age were more likely (56 percent) to drown in artificial pools. Another 26 percent of the drownings occurred in freshwater lakes and waterways. Children over five were most likely to drown in freshwater: 54 percent, 61 percent, and 69 percent among 5-9, 10-14, and 15-19 year-olds, respectively.

The report shows African American males above the age of five had significantly higher rates of drowning than white males. Drowning deaths in swimming pools were from 12-15 percent higher for African American males than for white males.

"Researchers have known that African American males are at a greater risk for drowning, but we didn't expect this to be due to an increased risk of drowning in swimming pools," said Dr. Brenner. "Additionally, a number of these deaths were in pools accessible to the public, rather than in private residential pools. Public pools hadn't been a big area of concern; however, our results present a very different picture."

Dr. Brenner suggests that African Americans' increased rate of exposure to dangerous situations in pools, such as overcrowding or lack of a lifeguard may contribute to this racial disparity. Differences in swimming ability and availability of swimming lessons may also play a role.

Among females, drowning rates were low after the age of five years, but African American females were also at increased risk of drowning in a swimming pool compared to white females of the same age.

The report also emphasized the vital need for a multi-faceted approach to drowning prevention and cited several recommendations from the American Academy of Pediatrics:

Teach all children five years of age and older to swim.
Provide for constant supervision of infants and young children around all bodies of water.
Install fencing to separate residential pools from the house.
Always wear US Coast Guard approved personal floatation devices when riding on a boat.
Teach children never to swim alone.
Education children and parents on the dangers of alcohol and drug consumption during aquatic activities.
Teach all parents and older children CPR.
The NICHD is part of the National Institutes of Health, the biomedical research arm of the federal government. The Institute sponsors research on development before and after birth; maternal, child, and family health; reproductive biology and population issues; and medical rehabilitation. NICHD publications, as well as information about the Institute, are available from the NICHD website, http://www.nichd.nih.gov, or from the NICHD Clearinghouse, 1-800-370-2943; E-mail [email protected].

Additional information on water safety and drowning prevention can be found on the CDC website, http://www.cdc.gov/od/oc/media/pressrel/r010525.htm.
0 Replies
 
 

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