4
   

What does " the resolution of the information" mean?

 
 
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2014 11:48 pm
1) What does resolution mean here?
2) What does CPT stand for?
3) What does ADS-CFT stand for?


Context:

Information Preservation and Weather Forecasting for Black Holes
Authors: S. W. Hawking
(Submitted on 22 Jan 2014)
Abstract: It has been suggested [1] that the resolution of the information paradox for evaporating black holes is that the holes are surrounded by firewalls, bolts of outgoing radiation that would destroy any infalling observer. Such firewalls would break the CPT invariance of quantum gravity and seem to be ruled out on other grounds. A different resolution of the paradox is proposed, namely that gravitational collapse produces apparent horizons but no event horizons behind which information is lost. This proposal is supported by ADS-CFT and is the only resolution of the paradox compatible with CPT. The collapse to form a black hole will in general be chaotic and the dual CFT on the boundary of ADS will be turbulent. Thus, like weather forecasting on Earth, information will effectively be lost, although there would be no loss of unitarity.

More:
http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.5761
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 979 • Replies: 20
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View best answer, chosen by oristarA
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Jan, 2014 11:56 pm
"Resolution," used this way, means the solution of a problem or question. The same goes for the verb "to resolve."
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 12:13 am
@Brandon9000,
Brandon9000 wrote:

"Resolution," used this way, means the solution of a problem or question. The same goes for the verb "to resolve."


Cool.
I wonder what "seems to be ruled out" means in "Such firewalls would break the CPT invariance of quantum gravity and seem to be ruled out on other grounds".

Firewalls seem to be ruled out/cancelled on other foundations? Hard to understand this.
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 01:00 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Brandon9000 wrote:

"Resolution," used this way, means the solution of a problem or question. The same goes for the verb "to resolve."


Cool.
I wonder what "seems to be ruled out" means in "Such firewalls would break the CPT invariance of quantum gravity and seem to be ruled out on other grounds".

Firewalls seem to be ruled out/cancelled on other foundations? Hard to understand this.

Ruled out in this context means shown to be not a possible solution.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 09:21 am
@Brandon9000,
Thank you.
Who would like to explain What does ADS-CFT stand for?
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 10:46 am
@oristarA,
It's a quantum electrodynamics term: anti-de Sitter/conformal field theory correspondence.
0 Replies
 
McTag
  Selected Answer
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 01:56 pm
@oristarA,
Very specialist stuff, this
CPT- Centre de Physique Theorique, Marseille, France

ADS-CFT: In theoretical physics, the anti-de Sitter/conformal field theory correspondence, sometimes called Maldacena duality or gauge/gravity duality, is a conjectured relationship between two kinds of physical theories.

String theory. Good luck.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 02:53 pm
@oristarA,
The issue is the resolution of the information paradox
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 02:55 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:
anti-de Sitter/conformal field theory


de Sitter space is scary.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Jan, 2014 11:58 pm
Well thank you guys.

It is wonderful to see Hawking present us another ingenious gift.
In that abstract, there seems to be an inconsistency:

Quote:
A different resolution of the paradox is proposed, namely that gravitational collapse produces apparent horizons but no event horizons behind which information is lost. This proposal is supported by ADS-CFT and is the only resolution of the paradox compatible with CPT. The collapse to form a black hole will in general be chaotic and the dual CFT on the boundary of ADS will be turbulent. Thus, like weather forecasting on Earth, information will effectively be lost, although there would be no loss of unitarity.


It seems to me that "no event horizons behind which information is lost" (that is, information will not be lost in black holes) and "information will effectively be lost" contradict each other. How to understand the contradiction?
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 02:52 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
It seems to me that "no event horizons behind which information is lost" (that is, information will not be lost in black holes) and "information will effectively be lost" contradict each other. How to understand the contradiction?


...resolution of the paradox is proposed...

1. Gravitational collapse produces apparent horizons but no event horizons (the kind behind which information is lost).

2. Collapse will be chaotic and there is turbulence at the boundary and information will be lost as a result.

No contradiction.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 03:05 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

oristarA wrote:
It seems to me that "no event horizons behind which information is lost" (that is, information will not be lost in black holes) and "information will effectively be lost" contradict each other. How to understand the contradiction?


...resolution of the paradox is proposed...

1. Gravitational collapse produces apparent horizons but no event horizons (the kind behind which information is lost).

2. Collapse will be chaotic and there is turbulence at the boundary and information will be lost as a result.

No contradiction.



Sorry Contrex. Nothing got improved here.

No event horizons, so no information will be lost.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 04:02 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

Sorry Contrex. Nothing got improved here.

No event horizons, so no information will be lost.


No event horizons as previously proposed, but information still "effectively" lost (i.e. it exists, but is made inaccessible by being scrambled by chaotic turbulence at boundary) thus an "apparent" horizon exists.


oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 10:10 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

oristarA wrote:

Sorry Contrex. Nothing got improved here.

No event horizons, so no information will be lost.


No event horizons as previously proposed, but information still "effectively" lost (i.e. it exists, but is made inaccessible by being scrambled by chaotic turbulence at boundary) thus an "apparent" horizon exists.




Read this, Contrex:
Information can escape from black holes, not all lost there:
Quote:
“There is no escape from a black hole in classical theory, but quantum theory enables energy and information to escape.”


So there is a contradiction.

Read more:
http://www.nature.com/news/stephen-hawking-there-are-no-black-holes-1.14583
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 10:14 am
@oristarA,
Quote:
...the physicist, based at the University of Cambridge, UK, and one of the creators of modern black-hole theory, does away with the notion of an event horizon, the invisible boundary thought to shroud every black hole, beyond which nothing, not even light, can escape.

In its stead, Hawking’s radical proposal is a much more benign “apparent horizon”, which only temporarily holds matter and energy prisoner before eventually releasing them, albeit in a more garbled form.


I see no contradiction. No escape in classical theory, but escape allowed in quantum theory.

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 10:27 am
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

Quote:
...the physicist, based at the University of Cambridge, UK, and one of the creators of modern black-hole theory, does away with the notion of an event horizon, the invisible boundary thought to shroud every black hole, beyond which nothing, not even light, can escape.

In its stead, Hawking’s radical proposal is a much more benign “apparent horizon”, which only temporarily holds matter and energy prisoner before eventually releasing them, albeit in a more garbled form.


I see no contradiction. No escape in classical theory, but escape allowed in quantum theory.




I see it is probably because this thunderously famed scientist - Steven Hawking has scared you off your normal sense, Contrex.

Hawking presents his new theory to offer a solution for the information paradox. If information could escape from black holes in this new theory, the information should not have all lost in them.

contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 12:10 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:


I see it is probably because this thunderously famed scientist - Steven Hawking has scared you off your normal sense, Contrex.



Please state, very clearly, where you see a contradiction.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 Jan, 2014 10:13 pm
@contrex,
contrex wrote:

oristarA wrote:


I see it is probably because this thunderously famed scientist - Steven Hawking has scared you off your normal sense, Contrex.



Please state, very clearly, where you see a contradiction.



Is the following not clear enough?

Hawking presents his new theory to offer a solution for the information paradox. If information could escape from black holes in this new theory, the information should not have all lost in them.
oristarA
 
  0  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2014 12:33 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:

contrex wrote:

oristarA wrote:


I see it is probably because this thunderously famed scientist - Steven Hawking has scared you off your normal sense, Contrex.



Please state, very clearly, where you see a contradiction.



Is the following not clear enough?

Hawking presents his new theory to offer a solution for the information paradox. If information could escape from black holes in this new theory, the information should not have all lost in them.


In addition, Hawking has titled his article as:
Information Preservation and Weather Forecasting for Black Holes

If information is effectively lost in black holes, there will be no information preservation and no weather forecasting for black holes, and the title will be bullshit. But we all believe Hawking would not bullshit us.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 28 Jan, 2014 10:48 pm
@McTag,
McTag wrote:

Very specialist stuff, this
CPT- Centre de Physique Theorique, Marseille, France

ADS-CFT: In theoretical physics, the anti-de Sitter/conformal field theory correspondence, sometimes called Maldacena duality or gauge/gravity duality, is a conjectured relationship between two kinds of physical theories.

String theory. Good luck.


CPT should refer to Charge Parity Time, not Centre de Physique Theorique, McTag.
 

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