America has lost the war in Iraq.

What in the hell are you prattling on about?

and as for the deaths, I made it clearly what is my opinion about "croatian" government during WW2, it was pure nazi-satellite or nazi-puppet government that made terrible crimes. My points are only that it has nothing to do with events in 90's (and Milosevic's propaganda did used it as well) and that majority of Croats were not supporters of that government. what happened in 90's was simply that after Tito's death Yugoslavia was not equal anymore, Serbs were taking all the money from all the republics and first Slovenia, shortly after Croatia and Bosnia decided to leave federation and Serbs didn't want to lose their "money-bags"...and that's all...all WW2 talks, as well as religious talks are rubbish...

And as for WW2 I can only say that, especially after Tito's death, world opinion about Yugoslavia and about yugoslavian history was made about serbian lobbies - in all embassies through out the world were Serbs, all media was mainly controlled by Serbs, complete police and army was controlled by Serbs (I live in town with 67% of Croats and before independence, 95% of companies were held by Serbs, and 99% of policemen and army officers were Serbs). And that's all. Yugoslavia was becoming "Great Serbia", others decided it's enough and left, and then Serbia attacked those "others".

well, try to use your imagination, I think it's not such a hard task, although in the beginning it may sound a bit complicated. But, it's not believe me. And I am not ironic, honestly.

I wanted to comment on the title of this thread, not Yugoslavia. Could you please discuss on a new thread, thanks.

America has not lost the war in Iraq, yet, but given time, they will. This is why its so important for the UN to step in and take control over security arrangements.

We have already won the war in Iraq. All that's left is to reform a government that will equally and fairly represent the entire population of Iraq.

you are right Steve, but discussion sometimes go in other way. But you are right and sorry for that

Pity they'll only get a government appointed by the US to protect it's corporate interests.

Your such the optimist.

optimistic, pesimistic...but absolutely correct.

No reason for optimism while ever the shrub's finger is in the pie.

Sorry MCG you are right. America won the war in Iraq the day the statue came down and Bush (a few days later) stepped out onto the deck of an aircraft carrier beneath a large banner be had (thoughtfully) brought with him proclaiming "Mission Accomplished". Since when of course more US and coalition troops have been lost in combat/guerilla attacks than during the war itself, and the beaten Ba'athist remnants seem to have come together with Shia and outside elements to form a united front for the liberation of Iraq.

The Iraqi information minister said just before he scuttled out of Baghdad in advance of American tanks, that Iraq would be like Vietnam. "Our houses and our streets and our urban areas would be like the jungles and swamps of Vietnam for the American invaders". Everybody laughed at the time. I'm not so sure Wolfowitz Rumsfeld Cheney and Bush are laughing now.

Oh and just another thought. Remember that bloke Norman something. Storming Norman Schwarzkopf. I saw a history channel documentary the other day about Gulf war 1. He was explaining (in I guess probably 1996 or 7) that it would have been a disaster going on to Baghdad having ejected Iraq from Kuwait. He said America would get bogged down and stuck like "an elephant in a tar pit".
But of course that was history. Nothing to do with now.

Yes indeed, we've already won the war...now we help them rebuild their fragile self esteem by having them blow a bunch of people, including our citizens and soldiers, to fvcking bits every day, sometimes more than once.

How noble and self sacrificing, what a brilliant strategy thank God we've won this war.

Some Iraqi's aren't happy with the outcome of the war. They liked there situation before America liberated teh rest of the country. Now, they are trying their best to disrupt life for everyone.

Like it or not, the war is over and we won. Now we just have to work out the details of the peace.

The war is not won. It won't be won until we have established the stated objective of a free peaceful liberal and Muslim democracy in Iraq. Something worth striving for, but something nowhere near yet achieved. This is what worries me about simple statements like we won the war. It betrays the real American view, that "we" have taken control of the bits of Iraq "we" i.e. America is interested in, specifically oil fields, administrative centres and enough territory to build some very large military bases, while the fate of the rest of Iraq and its population is irrelevant. A free peaceful.. etc etc.
would be nice, but who cares, we now control the bits of Iraq that are important to furthering the interests of American geopolitical strategy.

If that's true, why are we in Faluja? Why would we risk our troops instead of just defending what " America is interested in, specifically oil fields, administrative centres and enough territory to build some very large military bases"?

War
Why is the US Military in Faluja?

Good question!

My guess: The city has a strong number of resistors toward the Occupation. The US feels that if it can subdue that city then the rest of Iraq will surrender. In fact this strategy is backfiring; the rest of Iraq is becoming more resolute in becoming a US colony because they see that the US has not come to bring them freedom but serfdom.

America has neither won nor lost the war. Without the WMD, the US must ensure that Iraq is a more stable, "good neigbor" in the region than it was. It must also foster a democratic system that will serve as an example to the rest of the region. However, the
the decision on a government must be made by the Iraqi people. Self determination is the only way. Governement cannot be imposed. I am a conservative and did believe in the war and yes, Saddam did have weapons (at one time) but the peace is far more important than tanks streaking through the desert. The battle must be met with militant elements in the Sunni triangle beause they are retarding the growth of a future Iraq. A 30% minority has ruled Iraq for too long. They have held on to Iraq with the RPG and terror. Criticism is encorouged.

Mistakes
Three mistakes which are laid right on the desk of the Pres., which he will never admit are as follows:

1. The disbanding of the Iraqi Military and Police Forces.

2. the disbanding of the Iraqi Buerocracy and the de-Baathification.

3. Not guarding major Iraqi Govt. Buildings Museums and Nuclear Facilities.

Even many conservatives fully agree with the following:

The absolute poor planning of the aftermath of the major war effort.

My view is that this has led to the war being lost.

1. Disbanding the army. Yes. A mistake. Most low level generals and troops could not stand Saddam.
2. Part one yes. Two no. Middle class, low level functionaries are needed in any governement. Part two hell no. The Baath party were Saddam's willing executioners and most of them are
complicent in genocide. Sorry mass homicide.
3. Mistake of not enough troops. Nuclear facilities-WMD's? Museums and lost art theft has proved to be a fallacy or exaggeration but at any rate this is the realm of N. Geographic not the fine men and woman of the armed services.

spoken with perfect sociopathic detachment.....you are a man for the times let there be no doubt........