Lola, You beat me to it. I also do not agree with Pifka's thesis that life is meaningless without god. Many who believe in god(s) have done more harm to their fellow man than without one. All those god fearing men who cheated their companies, investors, and employees leaves me with little doubt that many of us without religion can live happy and ethical lives without god(s). c.i.
Lola, et al., please note, I said Life at the moment of death, becomes meaningless. While living, of course, it seems as meaningful as we make it.
Anyway, I was trying to describe one of many ways that someone might feel in their belief or non-belief.
My own beliefs are different and would be boring for anyone to know about.
Piffka wrote:I said Life at the moment of death, becomes meaningless. While living, of course, it seems as meaningful as we make it.
Did you intend to say that we are only imagining that our lives have meaning.
How about ... Life is as meaningful as we make it.
That is nearly verbatim what I did say, ahem, "...it (meaning Life) seems as meaningful as we make it."
Again, this is not precisely what I believe, being a Taoist, but what I can only assume someone who does not believe in any god or God might believe.
Lola - I know what you are saying - but I have certain beliefs about the meta-role of science -or scientism as I would call the ideology - but this is nt the thread for it, I think.
I will try to curb my digressionary tendencies... heehee
Piffka, I think I know where you are coming from. Attempting to objectively define a belief set or system at odds with one's own is a difficult thing to do, fraught with contradictions, missinterpretations, and obstacles. Spirituality, I think, can coexist with Science, provided neither of the two becomes intollerant of the other. I believe spirituality to be something of a human instinct, a trait, among many, of the species, as migration is among the traits of the species of the goose. I don't see that necessarily empirical proof of anything other than that Spirituality is part of the human condition. It ALLOWS for the existence of deity, but does not require it.
timber
religion
Timberlanko, I appreciate your last comment...especially where spirituality does not require a belief in dieties.
Am I supposing ithat the people here understand Taoism? We live our lives in a kind of spiritual blur, absorbing chi and emptying ourselves of the cares of the world. We do not have a deity though we revere nature. Taoists accept that there is a universal force, Chi, which encompasses everything. But Chi is also not a deity. There are no deities... though there is a belief in good and bad spirits; these are not deities, only manifestions of energy.
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao.
The name that can be named is not the eternal name.
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth.
The named is the mother of ten thousand things.
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery.
Ever desiring one can see the manifestations.
The key too everything is choice, and no retribution regardless of the choice!
Deities??
I must admit I feel like an observer at a horrible accident here.
While I always try to avoid such things, and am very glad not to be affected personally, I feel I should do what I can to help, if possible; or perhaps just stay out of the way and let the professionals attend!
But I must admit...... there is a certain morbid curiosity!
Just to append to the subject as the latest posts have been going...
To me life is entirely meaningless, and governed totally by chance.
So each actual choice we make is of monumental importance!
But when it's over,.... it's over.
So bring something to the table if you wish to create a ripple.
This I agree with, Bill, each of us have our own fantasies and reasons for our personal beliefs and these should, above all else, be respected.
What a twist, heh? Since nobody can prove "there is" a god, somebody wants to answer the negative; prove there isn't a god. That's a good one. Can we prove Santa DOESN'T exist? c.i.
afterlife
Bogowo, you say that life is entirely meaningless. Then you provide us with a fundamental principle packed with meaning. Thank you for the contradiction.
It's always comforting when someone "gets the point"!
I just found this thread and have some reading to do. Back tomorrow.
help
Just received an announcement of a new post for this thread, but I couldn't log on by clicking the appropriate button. Could someone please convey this problem to the appropriate person? I don't want to have to provide proof for the existence of this thread--no time.
JL, that happened to me too, which I hope we can clear up, as I have recommended this thread to people. I will try to contact a moderator.
JL and everybody, a moderator is looking into the problem.
