Does "their expressed desire to kill" mean ...?

Forums: English, Esl, Grammar
Email this Topic • Print this Page

Does "their expressed desire to kill" mean "their determination (sworn before their leader (Adolf Hitler) to eradicate (Jews)"?
That is, the "expressed desire" is an noble (at least in their heart) purpose.

Context:

Excerpts from Explanation of Jury Decisions
Torturing of prisoners [of Auschwitz] already tormented to the extreme [by extrajudicial means], is the evidence of inhuman savagery perpetrated by those defendants who as a result of the trial were sentenced to death. The listed violent crimes committed by named defendants, who all took smaller or larger part in the mass murder of prisoners, also reveal that the accused were involved in the acts of killing for pleasure, and not pursuant to orders of their superiors. If it were not for their expressed desire to kill, they would have otherwise displayed elements of sympathy for the victims, or at least show indifference to their plight, but not torture them to death.

Topic Stats
Top Replies
Link to this Topic

Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 931 • Replies: 11

No top replies

View best answer, chosen by oristarA

@oristarA,

It seems to be more a desire of the individuals involved than Adolf.

1 Reply

@roger,

roger wrote:

It seems to be more a desire of the individuals involved than Adolf.

More confused.

Isn't "the acts of killing for pleasure" individual?
The logic doesn't hold water.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

You think it's individual. I think it's individual. I did try to understand your objection. I failed.

oristarA wrote:

Does "their expressed desire to kill" mean "their determination (sworn before their leader (Adolf Hitler) to eradicate (Jews)"?
That is, the "expressed desire" is an noble (at least in their heart) purpose.

1 Reply

@roger,

roger wrote:

You think it's individual. I think it's individual. I did try to understand your objection. I failed.

oristarA wrote:

Does "their expressed desire to kill" mean "their determination (sworn before their leader (Adolf Hitler) to eradicate (Jews)"?
That is, the "expressed desire" is an noble (at least in their heart) purpose.

A communist's (publically) expressed desire is that (he/she will fight for the liberation of mankind. Whether they actually harm mankind is another question), and so is a nazi's expressed desire.

Quote:

The express desire of a communist:
Man's dearest possession is life, and it is given to him to live but once. He must live it so as to feel no torturing regrets for years without purpose, never know the burning shame of a mean and petty past; so live that, dying, he can say: all my life, all my strength were given to the finest cause in all the world——the fight for the Liberation of Mankind.

Does this help you understand me?

0 Replies

@oristarA,

The accused were psychopaths and they had a general desire to kill people, anyway. It was in their makeup. They would found a way to kill people, even without the war. Hitler surrounded himself with these people.

It happened that they had an opportunity to carry out their acts in this situation.

0 Replies

@oristarA,

oristarA wrote:

Does "their expressed desire to kill" mean "their determination (sworn before their leader (Adolf Hitler) to eradicate (Jews)"?
That is, the "expressed desire" is an noble (at least in their heart) purpose.

Context:

Excerpts from Explanation of Jury Decisions
Torturing of prisoners [of Auschwitz] already tormented to the extreme [by extrajudicial means], is the evidence of inhuman savagery perpetrated by those defendants who as a result of the trial were sentenced to death. The listed violent crimes committed by named defendants, who all took smaller or larger part in the mass murder of prisoners, also reveal that the accused were involved in the acts of killing for pleasure, and not pursuant to orders of their superiors. If it were not for their expressed desire to kill, they would have otherwise displayed elements of sympathy for the victims, or at least show indifference to their plight, but not torture them to death.

"Their expressed desire to kill" is self explanatory. What isn't explained in detail, is the applicable definition of the words while used in this particular context. "They" can mean a couple (two) like Leopold and Loeb; it can refer to a group of killers like Murder Inc.; it can be a mob at a lynching; volunteers to battle in war; "civilizations" committing genocide to cleanse 'their' world.
Just who "they" are, needs to be more accurately defined as well, so as to understand the "desire" to kill. Is it just for thrills as did Bonny and Clyde; or for money like hired assassins; do they kill for their God (Jihad), or to obey their dog (David Burkowitz).
And lastly, in what form is it "to kill" ? Is it to cease, as 'kill the lights'; is it hyperbole, 'touch my car and I'll kill you'; is it implied, 'it will be the last thing you'll ever do'; or an overstatement, 'if the courts don't execute him, I will'. Expressing a desire to kill can mean many different things on many different levels.
In the context given, it seems "expressed" could be done in a number of ways, from boasting, to simply following orders. Desire, here, could be driven by many things - from sadistic pleasure, to self-preservation by not being ordered to confront an armed enemy, or just being closer to home.
To kill, in this context is more precise, and although it can be passive (ignoring illness), or hastening the inevitable (being elderly), it is done willingly, to say the very least - and that is murder.

1 Reply

@Jack of Hearts,

Your post is just rhetoric and word play.

It flies in the face of the dead in Auschwitz concentration camp.

The torturers there were no dilettantes.

Source

1 Reply

@timur,

timur wrote:

Your post is just rhetoric and word play. Nonetheless, I said, in the original text posted "their expressed desire to kill" was self explanatory, being well defined by the court; oristarA mentioned a "noble (at least in their heart)purpose". This initiated my litany.

It flies in the face of the dead in Auschwitz concentration camp. I disagree. The text stated the defendants tortured for pleasure, without sympathy, and was indifferent to the victims death. I did not suggest they were in any way noble, nor mitigated the courts findings on the defendants.

The torturers there were no dilettantes. Agreed.

Source

oristarA inquired as to the state of mind, or rationale of those 'sworn to Hitler', as possibly having any justification. He mentioned nobility, and I mentioned a wide range of other possibilities. But please see that, my bottom line said they were murders.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

These were people who enjoyed torturing and killing people, in any normal society they'd be the ones locked up. Anyone with an ounce of decency wouldn't be able to take it. Otto Rahn is a prime example. After failing to deliver the Holy Grail he was assigned as a guard at Dachau. He didn't last long, he resigned from the SS then committed suicide.

0 Replies

@Jack of Hearts,

Jack of Hearts wrote:

timur wrote:

Your post is just rhetoric and word play. Nonetheless, I said, in the original text posted "their expressed desire to kill" was self explanatory, being well defined by the court; oristarA mentioned a "noble (at least in their heart)purpose". This initiated my litany.

It flies in the face of the dead in Auschwitz concentration camp. I disagree. The text stated the defendants tortured for pleasure, without sympathy, and was indifferent to the victims death. I did not suggest they were in any way noble, nor mitigated the courts findings on the defendants.

The torturers there were no dilettantes. Agreed.

Source

oristarA inquired as to the state of mind, or rationale of those 'sworn to Hitler', as possibly having any justification. He mentioned nobility, and I mentioned a wide range of other possibilities. But please see that, my bottom line said they were murders.

According to normal standard of morality, the defendants had committed heinous crimes and were notorious. I think I've not used "noble" properly there. They were only "noble" in Hitler's standard of virtue.

1 Reply

@oristarA,

Agreed.

0 Replies

Does "their expressed desire to kill" mean ...?

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know