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Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 07:18 am
@Leadfoot,
What do you think deniers are motivated by, if knowledge is not it and they are paid vast amounts by big oil? The Devil?
blatham
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 07:24 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Exxon Knew about Climate Change almost 40 years ago
A new investigation shows the oil company understood the science before it became a public issue and spent millions to promote misinformation
Scientific American
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 08:47 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
It is not possible for the NAS, AGU, or even you to know what another is thinking or motivated by. Your arguments have invariably rested on your supposed omniscient knowledge of this. It’s hard to take that seriously.
WHAAAA?

The NAS (National Academy of SCience AND the American Geophysical Union (AGU), of which several of the member organization include the Mteorlogical Inst.. ALL have based their opinion that resoundingly support GW based on probabalistics theory,(something the deniers avoid "religiously"

ALL these had appointed commitees to objectively evaluate the IPCC and the "Hockey STick" BS that was conjured mostly by self appointed science clumps (heavily funded by big oil) . ITS well written journal articles (NCSE has a neat little summary in its newsletter ). AGU maintains a standing committee based upon recent research an, the predictions appear even more dire than those of 15 years ago. Its the overwhelming opinion of subcommittees made up of member scientists (not marketers of petroleum, or internet readers).

It almost parallels the way that evolution deniers work their "magic"


Quote:
It’s hard to take that seriously.
Well then, just try reading real science , perhaps youll come to see where climate denial falls down. Until about 2 yars ago, I too was a"human related" climate change skeptic.Evidence based upon trend surface analyses data has convinced me that were on a crash course with climate change that wont be able to be dealt with

oralloy
 
  -1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 06:31 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
What do you think deniers are motivated by, if knowledge is not it and they are paid vast amounts by big oil? The Devil?

Maybe we just don't get hysterical over biased and unreliable data.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 07:19 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Evidence based upon trend surface analyses data has convinced me that were on a crash course with climate change that wont be able to be dealt with
Do you think it's too late already? It may be.

The climate was already warming naturally, so even if we curtailed all human contributions (which isn't realistic) it'll still continue to warm, just not as quickly, right?

If we somehow curtailed human greenhouse gas contributions, would the climate cool back to normal levels before resuming its natural warming trend, or would it just continue to warm from where it is now, just at a more natural rate?

If enough fresh water gets melted back into the Atlantic it'll eventually collapse the thermohaline cycle. Then what? Historically that change precipitates an Ice Age. So are we doomed to melt to death or freeze to death?

Is there anything at all that humanity can reasonably do to change any of this, or are we just on the roller coaster for the ride now?
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 08:18 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
What do you think deniers are motivated by, if knowledge is not it and they are paid vast amounts by big oil? The Devil?

Yes, you nailed it. Everyone who disagrees with you is motivated by either big oil or the devil.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Mon 9 Sep, 2019 08:47 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
Is there anything at all that humanity can reasonably do to change any of this, or are we just on the roller coaster for the ride now?

Who says that anything even needs changing?

These claims of pending disaster are based on biased and skewed data.
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 02:17 am
@oralloy,

378 member scientists of the National Academy of Sciences and 30 Nobel Laureates deisagree with you . They know considerably more about the subject than you do.
they published an open letter on climate change in 2016. That letter follows. I've oly included the first few signatories rather thn the full list.

Welcome to
ResponsibleScientists.org
On September 20, 2016, 378 members of the National Academy of Sciences, including 30 Nobel laureates, published an open letter to draw attention to the serious risks of climate change. The letter warns that the consequences of opting out of the Paris agreement would be severe and long-lasting for our planet's climate and for the international credibility of the United States.

   A full list of signers, including some who signed after September 20, 2016, follows the text of the letter.  
An Open Letter Regarding Climate Change From
Concerned Members of the U.S. National Academy of Sciences
Human-caused climate change is not a belief, a hoax, or a conspiracy. It is a physical reality. Fossil fuels powered the Industrial Revolution. But the burning of oil, coal, and gas also caused most of the historical increase in atmospheric levels of heat-trapping greenhouse gases. This increase in greenhouse gases is changing Earth’s climate.
Our fingerprints on the climate system are visible everywhere. They are seen in warming of the oceans, the land surface, and the lower atmosphere. They are identifiable in sea level rise, altered rainfall patterns, retreat of Arctic sea ice, ocean acidification, and many other aspects of the climate system. Human-caused climate change is not something far removed from our day-to-day experience, affecting only the remote Arctic. It is present here and now, in our own country, in our own states, and in our own communities.
During the Presidential primary campaign, claims were made that the Earth is not warming, or that warming is due to purely natural causes outside of human control. Such claims are inconsistent with reality.
Others argued that no action is warranted until we have absolute certainty about human impacts on climate. Absolute certainty is unattainable. We are certain beyond a reasonable doubt, however, that the problem of human-caused climate change is real, serious, and immediate, and that this problem poses significant risks: to our ability to thrive and build a better future, to national security, to human health and food production, and to the interconnected web of living systems.
The basic science of how greenhouse gases trap heat is clear, and has been for over a century. Ultimately, the strength of that basic science brought the governments of the world to Paris in December 2015. They went to Paris despite pronounced differences in systems of government, in national self-interest, in culpability for past emissions of greenhouse gases, and in vulnerability to future climate change. The leaders of over 190 countries recognized that the problem of human-caused climate change is a danger to present and future citizens of our planet. They made national commitments to address this problem. It was a small but historic and vital first step towards more enlightened stewardship of Earth’s climate system.
From studies of changes in temperature and sea level over the last million years, we know that the climate system has tipping points. Our proximity to these tipping points is uncertain. We know, however, that rapid warming of the planet increases the risk of crossing climatic points of no return, possibly setting in motion large-scale ocean circulation changes, the loss of major ice sheets, and species extinctions. The climatic consequences of exceeding such thresholds are not confined to the next one or two electoral cycles. They have lifetimes of many thousands of years.
The political system also has tipping points. Thus it is of great concern that the Republican nominee for President has advocated U.S. withdrawal from the Paris Accord. A “Parexit” would send a clear signal to the rest of the world: "The United States does not care about the global problem of human-caused climate change. You are on your own." Such a decision would make it far more difficult to develop effective global strategies for mitigating and adapting to climate change. The consequences of opting out of the global community would be severe and long-lasting – for our planet’s climate and for the international credibility of the United States.
The United States can and must be a major player in developing innovative solutions to the problem of reducing emissions of greenhouse gases. Nations that find innovative ways of decarbonizing energy systems and sequestering CO2 will be the economic leaders of the 21st century. Walking away from Paris makes it less likely that the U.S. will have a global leadership role, politically, economically, or morally. We cannot afford to cross that tipping point.
The following signers of this letter do so as individual NAS members and not on behalf of the NAS itself or their Institutions.
SIGNED BY:
• Benjamin D. Santer, Member, National Academy of Sciences^
• Kerry A. Emanuel, Massachusetts Institute of Technology^
• George B. Field, Harvard University^
• Ray Weymann, Carnegie Institution for Science Emeritus^
• Peter C. Agre, Johns Hopkina Malaria Research Institute
• Bruce Alberts, University of California San Francisco
• Thomas D. Albright, The Salk institute for Biological Studies
• Richard M. Amasino, University of Wisconsin-Madison
• Jim Anderson, Harvard University
• Phillip W. Anderson, Princeton University
• Roger Angel, University of Arizona
• Luc E. Anselin, University of Chicago
• Fred Anson, California Institute of Technology
• David Arnett, Univerity of Arizona
• Mary T. Kalin Arroyo, University of Chile
• Greg Asner, Carnegie Institution for Science
• Sir Michael Atiyah, University of Edinburgh
• Tanya M. Atwater, University of California Santa Barbara
• Francisco J. Ayala, University of California Irvine
• George Backus, University of California San Diego
• Neta Bahcall, Princeton University
• Steven Balbus, University of Oxford
rosborne979
 
  2  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 03:31 am
@oralloy,
How do you decide which data you listen to, is biased or skewed?
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 03:35 am
@Leadfoot,
Go ahead, try and think of an alternative. Why do you think these guys get paid to lie to you? a) because otherwise the universe would collapse; b) because the Devil says so; c) because that very money is what motivates them to lie to you?

You really think they disagree in good faith? Really? How amazingly naive!
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 05:21 am
@rosborne979,
I should have said, "MAy not be able to be dealt with in a manner that ends happily"

Ive always wondered about whether the "return" polar melt water would be entering the thermohyaline at such a rate as to "shut down" the tropical ocean streams like the Gulf Stream and would more quickly induce anothr Ice Age. In which Global Warming would be the parent of Global Cooling.

When systems get out of equilibrium it appears thats when these things happen. At least two of the Ceozoic Ice Ages have been evidenced to have begun as a response to Continental Drift and in another case, a relatively long warming trend had preceded the Neogene ,Nebraskan (our name) Continental Glaciation , That warming trend was among the sharpest upward trends from geologic record and ALL the Pleistocene Ice sheets followed (With a rather slow post Pleistocene rebound).

Its hard to deny the natural causes of GW and cooling , especially since our geological record can evidence both situations.(Thats a reason Id been a pretty vocal human induced GW person up until the last few years).
Im willing to listen to evidence for natural causation but this fawning denialism about the very existence or rate of warming is what I find unbelievable.




Olivier5
 
  3  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 05:34 am
@oralloy,
Quote:
Maybe we just don't get hysterical over biased and unreliable data.

You do.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 07:19 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
When systems get out of equilibrium it appears thats when these things happen.

Systems delicately set in balance, so critical that they can be tipped out of equilibrium, go catastrophic and make the planet Hell.

And at the same time it all happened by accident. The irony never ends.
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 08:44 am
@Leadfoot,
did you bring a basket into which you can deposit your picked cherries???
farmerman
 
  3  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 08:47 am
@farmerman,
when human intervention, leading to climate effects, is at least measurable, we need to get heads out of our asses and do something remedial.
This is just like the days of "Cigarettes are good for you", xcept everyones lives are at stake, an our "leadership" is owned by the fossil fuel cartels
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 09:11 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
You do.

We aren't the ones who are getting all hysterical over biased and unreliable data.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 09:12 am
@MontereyJack,
MontereyJack wrote:
378 member scientists of the National Academy of Sciences and 30 Nobel Laureates deisagree with you. They know considerably more about the subject than you do.

Nice appeal to authority fallacy, but it doesn't change the fact that the data is biased and unreliable.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 09:14 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:
How do you decide which data you listen to, is biased or skewed?

When you see scientific journals suppressing publication of data that does not fit the leftist narrative, and you see the scientific community shrug its shoulders and not bother to rectify the problem, it is safe to conclude that scientists are basing their findings on biased data.

As far as I know, there is no reliable global warming data, from any source, so I advise not listening to any of it.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 09:35 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
did you bring a basket into which you can deposit your picked cherries???

Yes, it’s called a consistent world view. It demands that all contradictions be resolved.
Those cherries were in your basket. I take it your basket doesn’t have a problem with them.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Tue 10 Sep, 2019 09:46 am
@oralloy,
Oh yes you are. You were foolish enough to believe the lies of the GW deniers and take their hysterical 'hoax' howls seriously.
 

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