132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Helloandgoodbye
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 06:15 pm
@farmerman,
That is why I gave you two articles.
Both confirm layers of ice can be accumulated at more than one layer per year, like tree rings. Which is what the airplane demonstrates.
Dating techniques, what a hoot huh?
Did u even read your article, which assumes annual layers?
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 06:25 pm
@Helloandgoodbye,
its compared by other samples, How many airplanes were there? Use of gases anf Ash layers, Xenotime crystals, etc.
Im afraid that just cause something like airplanes is easilt bought into, doesnt mean its worth consideration. .
tree rings are even more easily analyzed. because usually there are dozens or more cores taken from different species . We can also compare the relative width and narrowness as well as the makeup of the spring summer and fall rings.(Ring ratio incices are published by NOAA nd are useful to reviewregional weather and flood data in pre colonial times(or even Archaic times with cross plots from cliff dweller logs and ancient kivas.

Since you dont have a lue about what you speak of, why act like you do. Your science denying leaders are mostly religious fanatics who try to make you believe in their rubbish.


Helloandgoodbye
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 06:48 pm
@farmerman,
Well, u know my thoughts. That atheists and other religious extremists promote evolutionism and other terrible science.
You’ve always got a story for everything, like last page or two regarding abiogenesis, and dating techniques, but that is about it. Stories. Pseudoscience.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 06:59 pm
@Helloandgoodbye,
as if you even give a **** about cience.
BTW, did some further reading about the P38 on the Greenland shelf. It was carried over 2.5 miles along a moving glacire and the imbrication of the ice sheet (little slices of ice layers that get pushed downward from th glacial "bergs grunde" ) are what was responsible for "burying the plane" not some massive buildup of 340 ft of ice.
YA GOTTA BE MORE DEMANDING of your sources. Best to just go into something with no conclusions and then follow the evidence. Never go into a argument with new "weapons" that are not understood by you. Itll just make you look silly. (like now)



Richard Alley at Pnn State had argued that plane depth with some creationist"Scientists" and kinda blew them away with evidence an logic pure and simple)


No what else ya got?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 07:05 pm
@Helloandgoodbye,
Quote:
like last page or two regarding abiogenesis, and dating techniques, but that is about it. Stories. Pseudoscience.
By your esteemed opinion?? How many yars education in science you got and how many years experience. ??

You really must be afraid for your immortal souls (Whatever that is).
I am not, therefore I can do my work without the fear of pissin off the Big Guy or the Designer of Intelligence.

Ever think that your God needs you to do some real thinking rather than just mindlessly buying into that Creationist BULLSHIT???.
How can he look at humans and be proud of them and say "Can I cook? or what?"

Helloandgoodbye
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 07:10 pm
@farmerman,
Too bad so many ppl have the fear of being ‘dethroned’ by the true king, and keeps ppl from exploring true science, and use evolutionism as a crutch.
If there is no God, then they become God, dictating right from wrong. How appealing to promote false science/misinformation. To believe a lie like walking fish.sigh.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 08:46 pm
@Helloandgoodbye,
Thanks for this useful reference. http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebook/Radioactivity2.html#wp18936670
Quote:
Neutron Activation Analysis. This routine, nondestructive technique can be used to identify chemical elements in an unknown material. Neutrons, usually from a nuclear reactor, bombard the material. Some nuclei that absorb neutrons become radioactive—are driven up the neutron-heavy side of the valley of stability. [See Figure 204 on page 390.] The decay characteristics of those “pumped up” nuclei then help identify the atoms present.

Neutron Stars. When a very massive star begins to run out of hydrogen and other nuclear fuels, it can collapse so suddenly that almost all its electrons are driven into nuclei. This produces a “sea of neutrons” and releases the immense energy of a supernova. What remains near the center of the gigantic explosion is a dense star, about 10 miles in diameter, composed of neutrons—a neutron star.

The Strong Force. Like charges repel each other, so what keeps a nucleus containing many positively charged protons from flying apart? A poorly understood force inside the nucleus acts over a very short distance to pull protons (and, it turns out, neutrons, as well) together. Nuclear physicists call this the strong force. Binding energy, described on page 388, is the result of work done by the strong force.

Two nuclei, pushed toward each other, initially experience an increasing repelling force, called the Coulomb force, because both nuclei have positive charges. However, if a voltage is accelerating many nuclei in one direction and electrons are flowing between them in the opposite direction, that repelling force is largely neutralized. Furthermore, both positive and negative flows will produce a reinforcing Z-pinch. [See Figure 202 on page 386.] If the voltage driving both flows is large enough, the Z-pinch brings the two nuclei close enough together so that the strong force merges them into one large nucleus.22

If the Z-pinch acts over a broad plasma flow, many nuclei could merge into superheavy nuclei—nuclei much heavier than any chemical element found naturally. Most merged nuclei would be unstable (radioactive) and would rapidly decay, because they would lie high on the proton-heavy side of the valley of stability. [See Figure 204 on page 390.]

While the strong force holds nuclei together and overcomes the repelling Coulomb force, four particular nuclei are barely held together: lithium-6 (6Li), beryllium-9 (9Be), boron-10 (10B), and boron-11 (11B). Slight impacts will cause their decay.23 The importance of these fragile isotopes will soon become clear.


I think this is showing we are about 4,500 years from the end of the flood. What happened during the flood, and how long the flood actually is the much bigger question that has to be answered.

I do believe the entire universe (when it was constructed in its initial perfection) was more like a universe-sized neutron star. This would make the flood event a universal event (The waters in the flood, are the waters of the Higgs field and the waters inside of matter, making the waters in Genesis more of a universal quantum mechanical fluid.) that introduced the process of universal inflation as the electron cloud (dark energy) and the swirling of galaxies. (dark matter).

John was describing this process in Rev 6:12
Quote:
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.


the event described by "the sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place." Is what happened when the perfection of a universe constructed like a neutron star is disrupted every in all atoms. The higgs field and matter no longer interact as a universe wide perfectly entangled neutron star, and inflation is introduced as, dark energy in the electron cloud (as electrons no longer are part of the nucleus) and the swirling of the higgs field in the galaxies contributes further to the inflation. The changes in the spatial density where the universe is expanding because of the disruption of the perfect universe-wide entanglement is what we now experience as gravity. This change in order and entropy, is what is calculated by Erik Verlinde's Entropic Gravity.

How long this process took is questionable. The current inflation theory of the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin puts the age of the universe at approximately 14 billion years old. If their math is correct, and these inflation rates are adjusted to a starting point of a "perfect" neutron star type of beginning of the universe rather than an infinitesimally dense beginning of the universe, the age of the universe calculates out to about 4 billion years.

The atomic clocks (before the inflation of the universal flood event) would have operated in perfection and measured time differently than we do today. I haven't calculated that change in rate of time but we do know that time is experienced differently outside of large gravitational fields. For this reason your six thousand year story could be correct but is being measured according to pre flood atomic clocks. Our post-flood clocks need to be adjusted to coincide with the pre-flood clocks, which might be why the Earth looks much older to science. But your reference of helium release from rocks brings up an interesting fact. https://answersingenesis.org/age-of-the-earth/6-helium-in-radioactive-rocks/ But at the same time there is this transition period "during the flood event" where the helium in radioactive rocks was not escaping at the rate it is today as pointed out in your other reference about neutrons and neutron stars.

This adjustment in current clocks to pre-flood clocks might make answers in Genesis more accurate and slightly more palatable to the broader scientific community. What do you think?
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 09:03 pm
@brianjakub,
Creation Science [sic] . . . Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahaha . . .

Hey, Bubba . . . wanna buy a bridge?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 09:54 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Creation Science [sic] . . . Ah-hahahahahahahahahahahahaha . .
Now that is a Bubba response.

"Bubba response" definition: 1. Say nothing intelligent. 2. Call somebody names thinking that will cover up the fact that you are to ignorant about the subject to discuss it.

Thank you for the wonderful example of what it means to be a Bubba.

I hope you can at least overhaul an engine or something useful with your hands besides posting about the evolution of the universe.
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 14 Apr, 2019 10:06 pm
@brianjakub,
First, Bubba is an appellation, not a substantive. Second, I know of no reason to accept your definition of anything. Third, you wanted to write "too ignorant" (which is funny, since you obviously have no command of the language in which you are attempting to insult me; that is, of course, the equivalent of name-calling, which is hypocrisy on your part). Your third sentence is meaningless, as Bubba is an appellation, and not a substantive. I retired many years ago, after a successful career as a business manager, so you need to find something else to get snotty about.

Finally, this thread is about the evolution of life on this planet, not the evolution of the universe. That is something else about which you have never convincingly demonstrated a comprehensive knowledge
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 12:28 am
@Setanta,
Should I get some fresh ground pepper on BJ's word salad??

See how cleverly he slipped from quantum chemistry to "cosmetology"??
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 12:32 am
@Helloandgoodbye,
Quote:
Too bad so many ppl have the fear of being ‘dethroned’ by the true king, and keeps ppl from exploring true science,
.
Ill give you a chance . Try to come up with one applied scientific tool or device that your "True SCience" has come up with?.(maybe the deneuralizer from MIB )

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 04:06 am
@farmerman,
BJ is a would-be intellectual bully. He never answers questions, he just asks more questions when challenged. That's why he slithers all over the place like a slug on a pane of glass.
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 04:54 am
@Setanta,
Ive noted that with him and he failed to respond. I just love his way of conflating everything from Plate Tectonics and quantum whatever,to cosmology and, of course ,Biblical scripture.


brianjakub
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 06:03 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
BJ is a would-be intellectual bully. He never answers questions, he just asks more questions when challenged. That's why he slithers all over the place like a slug on a pane of glass.


What question did you ask me that I did not answer? This my answer to your first question.

brianjakub
Quote:
I am not suggesting a magic sky daddy. I am suggesting, because I know enough about physics, that there are more particles needed in the standard model to explain the Higgs bozon I am suggesting because I know enough about physics that there are more particles needed in the standard model to explain the Higgs bozon. And, I am suggesting there is a need for a complex structure to the Higgs bozon and the structure of the nucleus of an Atom to explain entanglement dark matter and dark energy gravity and the constants. I am suggesting there is a need for this complexity to complete the standard model to eliminate a naked singularity in the higgs boson. It's not a need of mine, it is needed to make the standard model make sense. It is needed because the evidence suggest it. I am also suggesting that we are going to reach your level of complexity that cannot be explained without intelligence.


I answered that question using my phone and did not notice that the voice recognition messed up. I corrected it in this response sorry for the inconvenience.

Sentana
Quote:
Finally, this thread is about the evolution of life on this planet, not the evolution of the universe. That is something else about which you have never convincingly demonstrated a comprehensive knowledge


This thread is about why people deny evolution. I don't deny evolution completely. I think evolution requires assistance from intelligence to build the quantum mechanical structure it operates in. I think evolution with out intelligence is incomplete and nonworkable without an explanation for where the hardware came from.

Quote:
Hey, Bubba . . . wanna buy a bridge?


My name isn't Bubba so, I am assuming that question isn't directed at me. What does that question have to do with the topic of evolution. Why do you think we can say evolution as described by science is acceptable when it has so many holes in it and is very incomplete?

I am trying to keep you on topic. I am not bullying you.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 06:23 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Ive noted that with him and he failed to respond. I just love his way of conflating everything from Plate Tectonics and quantum whatever,to cosmology and, of course ,Biblical scripture.


I do question some of the interpretations of plate tectonics but, I basically accept most of the interpretations and the science in general.

I am using scripture as an ancient historical source because there are no others. The second reason is; if the bible is assumed to be what it claims to be and is properly interpreted; it actually works to fill in some of the gaps science tries to fill in with magic with things that have no physical evidence beyond mathematical speculation and vivid imaginations such as:

1. Infinite density of the universe at the initiation of the big bang.
2. Abiogenisis
3. Stellar nucleosynthesis

Plus if you can imagine an intelligence arranging the particles of matter and the higgs field, you can imagine the higgs boson and matter being more complex than stellar nucleosynthesis can provide and actually complete the standard model. (The higgs gluon and the four Higgs electrons for example) and (compacted universes of of these four particle higgs like structures entangled and embedded in the interior of atoms).

I am using the bible to guide my imagination to interpret the math. Mainstream scientists are using nothing but a rigid atheistic viewpoint that is slowly converting to a pantheistic viewpoint as some begin to concede the need for intelligence like Wilczek, Hawking, Penrose, Susskind etc. . .
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 08:02 am
@brianjakub,
Quote:
it actually works to fill in some of the gaps science tries to fill in with magic with things that have no physical evidence beyond mathematical speculation and vivid imaginations such as:


And you call science "magic" yet your "science Book" has fairy tales galore which you question not.

Flood
Parting the Reed sea
Dead rising
Create a living plnet in under aweek
Humans arising from nothing but mud and ribs
No explanation for where Cain got his wife and where all the people comefrom
LOts wife
Jonah gets barfed up by a big fish
talking snakes


(IT GOES ON), makes many of us laff that folks like you dont call that "magic" or poofistic science



Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 08:54 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
no ditch of"mockery" was intended. I was dead serious as to how you dismiss evidence by claiming evidence that supports evolution also supports ID. However, you miss the point totally that, while you agree with the evidence I presented you immediately attach some lame claim that it is supportive of ID without a jot or tiddle of anything supportive of ID other than your say so. Evidence can be tested, experimented with, repeated etc. Your statement stands by itself with no backup nor any idea how such backup is even developed for consideration.

Your statements that included the ever lovin one in which you claim the IDer had presented all this information just to mess with our hads. Then you just go galumpfing away like you just scored a point in science.

When you make such inane statements with only your IOU about "evidence"you really do deserve mockery.You fall to the level (on a slightly different neighborhood) as H&G who claims that evidence exists for such dumass beliefs as a "worldwide Flood that killed off all the animals except undisclosed numbers of pairs of species unnamed or unevidenced.
This Flood occured a few thousand years ago ( we have Antarctic ice cores that date back over a half million years)

Or how isotopic dating methods are all wrong (except for the ones he wishes to endorse).

WHY DO PEOPLE DENY EVOLUTION??? because Fundamentalist religions are uncomfortable with loss of control of their flocks.

The only sentence remotely related to anything I've ever said was the second one, and even that was an intentional distortion (unless I have grossly over, or under, estimated you).

I'm quoting all of it here just to remind myself what I've been arguing with, just in case you decide to delete the original.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 08:59 am
@blatham,
Quote:
You may be thinking of my "contributions" here. I do mock, it is true. Not religion, not faith, but stupid stupid instances of the thing.

Nah, you had plenty of company.

But yeah, a meme of Jesus holding baby T-rex is a stupid stupid instance of something, but it isn't religion or faith. It isn't even good mockery, that's what pisses me off about it.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 15 Apr, 2019 09:47 am
@Leadfoot,
so you dont recall that you ever said that evidence I presented was also evidence favoring ID or that ID was presented in the fossil record to actually "look like" fossils were deposited in a pattern to mimic evolution.OR That the IDer had "front end " loaded mysterious forces of chemistry so as to (perhaps) let scientists believe they were actually finding stuff but werent.

You dont remember ever saying that eh?

perhaps your misrepresenting science has a root cause that people of our age dont like to hear about.

PS, Ive never "erased anything " but you have. You are like all GOPers I know, you use blurbs of accusation to your opponents because its stuff you are already doing.

Neat trix, but not flying


0 Replies
 
 

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