132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 06:31 am
@farmerman,
Low pressure will not break down a covalent bond. You can bring pure water (or any other reasonably stable molecule) to as low a pressure you want, it won't 'dissociate'. Low pressure has no effect, no meaning even, at atomic level where the covalent bonds reside.

Now if a water molecule becomes so exposed to solar wind and radiation that it breaks down into oxygen and hydrogen ions, that's nothing to do with low pressure and everything to do with solar wind and radiation...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 06:35 am
@Setanta,
Okay genius, so pray tell what exactly happens in Mars' atmosphere that doesn't happen anywhere else?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 06:43 am
By the by, the cheapest source for hydrogen, and a possibility the Chinese are canvassing, is to mine it on the moon. High start-up costs, to be sure, but once in operation, it can be done by AI-controlled bots, and the supply is enormous.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 08:59 am
@Olivier5,
Youre wrong. Im not gonna carry on just to make debate points. Look it up. It appears that youre trying to extend the dissociation of water and water molecules into ALL covalently and hydrogen bound compounds and lattices. I think we were specifically talking about water. AS I said, the energy of water dissociation is low in a vacuum but not "absent".
livinglava
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 09:02 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Now if a water molecule becomes so exposed to solar wind and radiation that it breaks down into oxygen and hydrogen ions, that's nothing to do with low pressure and everything to do with solar wind and radiation...

I'm not exactly sure why there is so much talk about using sunlight to break water molecules into relatively ionized constituents. If it's about making fuel to bring back to the ground to burn in automobiles and power plants, the problem is density.

To condense light particulate matter/gas into a form dense/heavy enough that it comes down to the ground, you have to collect a lot of it and compress it somehow. Gravity wells like planets and stars are good for that but air craft and space craft not so much.

Gravity basically divides the universe into different strata/layers of energy-mass density. Above the ionosphere, there is a lot of unfiltered sunlight but all the evaporated gases and ionized particles fly away very easily so particles are sparse and energy is abundant. The ionosphere filters out a lot of the energy by converting it into ion flows, which scatter the light so it isn't as harsh once it reaches the ground. The sunlight that heats up the ground causes evaporation of water and convection of hot air but that gas only makes it so high before it runs out of energy and cools down.

To gather more energy and condense it further, you have to compress time and space. That is done by growing biomass and gradually burying it over time so that it compresses into denser fuel molecules. Now you're dealing with geological time scales. You also have radioactive elements that form over astronomical time and space scales, i.e. the time it takes for a huge region of nebula-space to condense into a star large enough to eventually supernova and send radioactive fuels hurling outward to remote places like Earth where they can be used to heat the core of the planet and make a magnetic field to protect life from cosmic rays . . . or to power air-conditioners while the Earth cools and solidifies; depending on the relative intelligence/ignorance of the beings controlling the energy supply of the planet.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 09:03 am
@Setanta,
I blieve the Chinese are looking for He 3 not hydrogen. Its waay easier to react carbon monoxide with water and get H2 gas.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 09:06 am
@farmerman,
Leaving for the Tr basin of Maryland and Va to look for GRALATOR foot prints.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 10:49 am
@farmerman,
Of course you can breal a molecule of water in a void by applying a certain amount of energy, but the void doesn't help. You look it up.
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 10:57 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
We have ways to exploit th comos through science. You were born 50K years too late


My guess is you are all for it, eh?!
0 Replies
 
OldGrumpy
 
  0  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 11:04 am
I have to laugh at all the "water"talk here and it shows that people have no clue how mysterious water really is! It even has a memory! AND we will NEVER run out of water. People who sat that want to exploit the IDEA of water-shortage.
livinglava
 
  0  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 01:37 pm
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

I have to laugh at all the "water"talk here and it shows that people have no clue how mysterious water really is! It even has a memory! AND we will NEVER run out of water. People who sat that want to exploit the IDEA of water-shortage.

The water cycle is caused and governed by solar energy and the geology of the land. Sunlight heats the planet, evaporating and effectively pumping water up into the sky, where it blows around, collects, condenses, and rains down. The quantity of fresh water added to rivers, lakes, and aquifers, is thus limited.

If humans figure out ways to waste enough water, they can and do deplet aquifers faster than they can replenish. Diverting water from rivers and lakes for agriculture, etc. isn't sustainable or wise if the long-term management of water and land aren't geared toward achieving a sustainable system.

Capitalism is an efficient method of facilitating productive exchanges, but it facilitates the delusion that people can make unlimited amounts of money and that by doing so there is no limits to what they can do with the money. In reality, we're dealing with material resources and mechanical/ecological systems that are affected by our use of them. We have to be aware of our impact on the resources we use and not just use them and assume they will keep supporting us the same regardless.
OldGrumpy
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 02:22 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
The water cycle is caused and governed by solar energy and the geology of the land. Sunlight heats the planet, evaporating and effectively pumping water up into the sky, where it blows around, collects, condenses, and rains down. The quantity of fresh water added to rivers, lakes, and aquifers, is thus limited.


This is just part of it. In reality we will NEVER run out of water.

Quote:
If humans figure out ways to waste enough water, they can and do deplet aquifers faster than they can replenish. Diverting water from rivers and lakes for agriculture, etc. isn't sustainable or wise if the long-term management of water and land aren't geared toward achieving a sustainable system.


When I hear of the term 'sustainable' I have suddenly itches all over . Do you have any clue where that word originates from?


Quote:
Capitalism is an efficient method of facilitating productive exchanges, but it facilitates the delusion that people can make unlimited amounts of money and that by doing so there is no limits to what they can do with the money. In reality, we're dealing with material resources and mechanical/ecological systems that are affected by our use of them. We have to be aware of our impact on the resources we use and not just use them and assume they will keep supporting us the same regardless.


You seem to also have no clue about how money really works!

I am for being carefull with the things we have! BUT a lot is exaggerated so we are willing to be controlled by an external force.

AND the force that is exaggerating is the same force that hides a lot of technology that would help the human race.

So you see it is ALL a scam, and there will ALWAYS be more then enough water on the earth. There is no problem there at all!
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 02:23 pm
How sad for OG--it seems that Livinglava is the only one who will talk to him.
OldGrumpy
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 02:24 pm
@Setanta,
seems you can't stand that!

But let be realistic here. What was ever a posting of you with any substance, eh?!
0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  2  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 02:51 pm
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

This is just part of it. In reality we will NEVER run out of water.

Who is 'we?' And are you limiting the we to a certain bounded area or are you assuming that people who run out of water will just move to new land where there is water? If so, what happens when people don't want them to come there for their water?

Quote:

When I hear of the term 'sustainable' I have suddenly itches all over . Do you have any clue where that word originates from?

It is a variation of the word 'sustain,' which means to continue or persist. If you make $1000/month and you spend $1000 or less per month, that is sustainable. When you start spending $1001/month, you begin going into debt $1/per month and so that will be unsustainable unless you find some way to increase your income to pay off the debt and afford to continue spending at that rate.

There are lots of ways that various things can be sustained or become unsustainable. E.g. if you try to run a marathon without pacing yourself, you won't make it to the finish line; but if you can walk 26 miles, you might finish while some runner runs out of steam halfway through.

Quote:
You seem to also have no clue about how money really works!

So you didn't understand what I wrote, but instead of asking what I meant, you just ignored it and told me that I don't understand 'how money works.' Brilliant discussion, not.

Quote:
I am for being carefull with the things we have! BUT a lot is exaggerated so we are willing to be controlled by an external force.

Like what?

Quote:
AND the force that is exaggerating is the same force that hides a lot of technology that would help the human race.

Like what?

Quote:
So you see it is ALL a scam, and there will ALWAYS be more then enough water on the earth. There is no problem there at all!

Actually, the problem regardless of what all conspiracies may or may not be going on is that humans aspire to lifestyles that are not sustainable. So even if the economy can deliver all the money people need to live the way they want to live, it's not sustainable.

Land is being cleared faster than it is being reforested. People are paying money to live in deforested areas and driving around in cars that prevent reforestation of the areas they live in. They are using energy at rates faster than the planet can replace it. Humans are thus setting a time bomb of unsustainability for their future generations. Most don't care because they'll be dead by the time the sh*t really hits the fan, to the extent it's not already.

OldGrumpy
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 02:56 pm
@livinglava,
Quote:
Who is 'we?' And are you limiting the we to a certain bounded area or are you assuming that people who run out of water will just move to new land where there is water? If so, what happens when people don't want them to come there for their water?


we is the human race, mate!


Quote:
It is a variation of the word 'sustain,' which means to continue or persist. If you make $1000/month and you spend $1000 or less per month, that is sustainable. When you start spending $1001/month, you begin going into debt $1/per month and so that will be unsustainable unless you find some way to increase your income to pay off the debt and afford to continue spending at that rate.

There are lots of ways that various things can be sustained or become unsustainable. E.g. if you try to run a marathon without pacing yourself, you won't make it to the finish line; but if you can walk 26 miles, you might finish while some runner runs out of steam halfway through.


Again, find out where this word really came from.


Quote:
So you didn't understand what I wrote, but instead of asking what I meant, you just ignored it and told me that I don't understand 'how money works.' Brilliant discussion, not.


Well, I understood what you wrote, however, it is wrong.

Quote:
Like what?


A lot, do your research. Maybe start with Tesla.

Quote:
Actually, the problem regardless of what all conspiracies may or may not be going on is that humans aspire to lifestyles that are not sustainable. So even if the economy can deliver all the money people need to live the way they want to live, it's not sustainable.


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaasseeee. You just fell for all the propaganda out there. Again dig deeper, do research.

Quote:
Land is being cleared faster than it is being reforested. People are paying money to live in deforested areas and driving around in cars that prevent reforestation of the areas they live in. They are using energy at rates faster than the planet can replace it. Humans are thus setting a time bomb of unsustainability for their future generations. Most don't care because they'll be dead by the time the sh*t really hits the fan, to the extent it's not already.


Really???? You are here just parrotting the ideology of the so called greenies.
Again, do some real research.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 02:57 pm
@Olivier5,
Ive probably been involved with auto -dissociation of water longer than youve been living. No lectures please I tire of pople reading stuff and spouting it bck as if its scripture. We often adjust P to create weak silicic acids when we lower the pressure for the (elevation driven )distillation of rare earths mostly as flouride salts. Pressure declines cause changes in Eh/pH that can affect auto- dissociation to a level we can use because we can calculate its limit. .
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 03:01 pm
@OldGrumpy,
we WILL run out of water for human life on this planet , Its inevitable as a predictable part of the life cycle of our solar system.
OldGrumpy
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 03:09 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
we WILL run out of water for human life on this planet , Its inevitable as a predictable part of the life cycle of our solar system.


That really is a whole lot of nonsense. The Earth will never ever run out of fresh water. It really will NEVER happen.
BUT there are powers on this beautifull Earth that wants us tot hink that!
livinglava
 
  1  
Sat 20 Oct, 2018 03:18 pm
@OldGrumpy,
OldGrumpy wrote:

we is the human race, mate!

Then your statement that 'we won't ever run out of water' is irrelevant. There are humans running out of water in various places always and when they die of dehydration, other humans still survive with water elsewhere.

If your point is that enough humans will die of dehydration to leave the water supply for other humans intact, that may be true but it is not reassuring or comforting in any way.


Quote:

Again, find out where this word really came from.

That's irritating. I just explained the meaning of the word and now you are talking about some kind of political origin theory about it. It means what it means, regardless of whether it was coined by Ben Franklin or Karl Marx, ok?


Quote:
Well, I understood what you wrote, however, it is wrong.

It's not, but there's nothing to discuss because you didn't say anything to discuss.

Quote:
A lot, do your research. Maybe start with Tesla.

I thought you might have a systematic, logical mind, but it seems you just have a bunch of random ideas to support your unreasoned beliefs.

Quote:

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Pleaaaaaaaaaaaaaasseeee. You just fell for all the propaganda out there. Again dig deeper, do research.

I was trying to discuss things you said logically, but I see that's not going to lead anywhere.

Quote:

Really???? You are here just parrotting the ideology of the so called greenies.
Again, do some real research.

At some point you have to come to terms with the fact that there is a difference between baseless ideology and valid reasoning. The only way you can figure out what's really reasonable is to discuss openly and think critically.

If you just reject things uncritically by calling them, 'parrotted ideology,' you are behaving just as mindlessly as you claim the 'parrotting greenies' are.

 

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