132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 03:17 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
All I asked was if you were prepared to condemn the Srebrenica massacre and those who deny that it happened.

You could have rephrased it as: “Have you stopped beating your wife yet”.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 03:22 pm
@Leadfoot,
Not true. What he asked was straightforward and simple to answer. BTW, do you condemn wife beating? #2: Do you condemn the Srebrenica massacre? I once traveled from Zagreb down the west coast to Cairo. That was some years ago, but I still remember Zagreb and Cairo, and not so much the towns in between. I did not know about the massacre.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 03:35 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yeah, right. In a thread about the belief in evolution, that’s such an appropriate question right out of the blue.

I’m not an idiot. Are you?

Congratulations on your world travels.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 04:30 pm
@Leadfoot,
That's the sort of trick you'd do. I asked a straightforward question. I didn't accuse you of being part of Srebrenica, I just asked if you condemned it.

The fact that you're finding it so difficult to address such a black and white issue as genocide really speaks volumes.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 04:34 pm
@Leadfoot,
My question was prompted by your sucking up to Gungasnake when he insulted FM. I didn't know if you knew what sort of person Gungasnake was, and mistakenly thought you would be disgusted by the denial of something like Srebrenica.

As you refuse to even condemn the massacre, despite given ample opportunity to do so, I have my answer.
farmerman
 
  0  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 07:30 pm
@izzythepush,
I think LF is merely pleased with gungas assertive style, because if I guess correctly, I dont think LF buys any of gunga's ignorant pooky. LF is trying to sort out scientific findings in cooperation with religious revelation.LF believes that ID has strong scientific bases, gunga preaches Biblical history as fact(his racist views mostly derive from his interpretation of SCripture)

I dont really think LF is in that camp.

Now, having said that,LF has a strong belief that everything Ive said is baseless prattle. and I challenge him to present his own evidence (Or some sense of a detail of how present evidence can be analyzed to conclude that ID is correct.

He has failed in that last step and by doing so, avoids me and tries to side with anybody (like gunga) who is a strong advocate of " making up stories against evoloserism" .

Gunga has a major hard on against anything of african or Islamic culture and history , ANYTHING. I give LF credit for not being of that mindset. LF was probably just avoiding you as a tool of his argument style. Youve backed him into a corner that has no real easy egress for him. Best offense is to ignore
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 29 Jul, 2018 09:16 pm
For whatever one may allege LF's mindset to be, it is undeniable that he provides no evidence, and does not enlist science in his cause. He's not stupid, and he may well be intelligent. He may be well educated. All of that, however, goes by the board because of his dedication to his imaginary friend superstition. His method is not dissimilar to that which BJ has always employed. That's to attempt to control the conversation with two cheap tricks. The first is diversion, and almost always involves references to abiogenesis. The second is ipse dixit pure and simple (although BJ does this much more often). We are expected to believe just because he has said it.

No appeals to civility or intelligence can take away the twin facts that LF (and BJ) present no evidence, and try to avoid discussing the topic.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Mon 30 Jul, 2018 01:01 am
@farmerman,
I don't think he is either, he doesn't tend to comment on political threads when Gunga says most of his disgusting stuff. I wanted to know what his response would be when he found out what sort of person Gunga was, whether or not he'd distance himself or carry on regardless.

I didn't ask him if he'd condemn Gunga either, (for all he knows I may be lying about Gunga's denial,) just the Srebrenica massacre and those who deny it. It's hardly contentious.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 30 Jul, 2018 10:33 am
I love you guys too.

Right Izzy, I don’t know Gunga or his political views, and I’d have to look up that massacre to form a meaningful opinion, but in general I am not in favor of killing anyone.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 30 Jul, 2018 10:38 am
@Leadfoot,
There you go.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Mon 30 Jul, 2018 10:51 am
@izzythepush,
Yes, a horrific crime. I didn’t recognize it from 'Srebrenica', but 'Bosnia' triggered the memory.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Mon 30 Jul, 2018 10:56 am
@Leadfoot,
Thank you.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 04:31 pm
@Setanta,
e
Quote:
For whatever one may allege LF's mindset to be, it is undeniable that he provides no evidence, and does not enlist science in his cause. He's not stupid, and he may well be intelligent. He may be well educated. All of that, however, goes by the board because of his dedication to his imaginary friend superstition. His method is not dissimilar to that which BJ has always employed. That's to attempt to control the conversation with two cheap tricks. The first is diversion, and almost always involves references to abiogenesis. The second is ipse dixit pure and simple (although BJ does this much more often). We are expected to believe just because he has said it.
Abiogenisis is the genisis of a very complex living system. A system containing complex information. All information has an author. We know this is true because have never seen new information enter the universe without an obvious intelligent author or a system of artificial intelligence that was initiated so long ago the author is no longer obvious.
Quote:
No appeals to civility or intelligence can take away the twin facts that LF (and BJ) present no evidence, and try to avoid discussing the topic
Provide an example of new information that has entered the universe without an author or an established system that can rearrange information.

There can only be one uncaused cause that did not need a physical universe to exist when the first system (the higgs field and matter) was established so that nature (the system created by God) would have a way to operate. That is logical. It is not logical to assume that all you need is gravity to create matter. (Big Bang Theory). You also need intelligence to establish patterns and order so every atom and every quark and electron is the same everywhere in the universe because matter is energy stored in patterns as information.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 04:38 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
All information has an author.
Stop. You have not established that statement.

We already know that DNA evolves naturally (no author), so your statement is demonstrated incorrect immediately.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 04:51 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
We already know that DNA evolves naturally (no author), so your statement is demonstrated incorrect immediately.
No we don't. From wiki abiogenisis
Quote:
Current models
There is no single, generally accepted model for the origin of life. Scientists have proposed several plausible(Plausisble but some how impossible to replicate. comment by bj) hypotheses, which share some common elements. While differing in the details, these hypotheses are based on the framework laid out by Alexander Oparin (in 1924) and by J. B. S. Haldane (in 1925), who postulated the molecular or chemical evolution theory of life.[102] According to them, the first molecules constituting the earliest cells "were synthesized under natural conditions by a slow process of molecular evolution, and these molecules then organized into the first molecular system with properties with biological order".[102] Oparin and Haldane suggested that the atmosphere of the early Earth may have been chemically reducing in nature, composed primarily of methane (CH4), ammonia (NH3), water (H2O), hydrogen sulfide (H2S), carbon dioxide (CO2) or carbon monoxide (CO), and phosphate (PO43−), with molecular oxygen (O2) and ozone (O3) either rare or absent. According to later models, the atmosphere in the late Hadean period consisted largely of nitrogen (N2) and carbon dioxide, with smaller amounts of carbon monoxide, hydrogen (H2), and sulfur compounds;[103] while it did lack molecular oxygen and ozone,[104] it was not as chemically reducing as Oparin and Haldane supposed. In the atmosphere proposed by Oparin and Haldane, electrical activity can produce certain small molecules (monomers) of life, such as amino acids. The Miller–Urey experiment reported in 1953 demonstrated this.
DNA is evolving according to established rules. These rules are grounded in biochemistry and qm which are two more layers of rules that existed before the first DNA. Science has nothing beyond speculation with no proof saying how life began. Biological evolution cannot exist and operate without biology. We cann logically assume that the information in the codes of qm biochemistry and DNa have an author just like the codes that come into existence today. That is a logical assumption made from observed patterns.
Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 04:55 pm
@brianjakub,
I see you're peddling your usual bullshit, and once again, it's about so-called abiogenesis (learn to spell the word if you're going to posting on an English language forum), and once again, it's pure ipse dixit bullshit. Roswell has already pointed out that your statement is unfounded. Really, it's both hilarious and disgusting how you seem to think you can formulate a debate position based on bullshit word salads and statements from an authority which you do not possess.
Setanta
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 04:57 pm
Oh, and once again, stop giving me orders, you little crypto-Nazi.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 06:20 pm
@rosborne979,
God people will never understand what nature is all about.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 06:21 pm
@brianjakub,
Oparin and Haldane, now thats some really up to date ****. Haldane hadda spend part of his career backing off a silly math expansion that gunga believes in. When it was discovered that many genes (and sometimes NO genes ) are involved in several functions of one to over 50 genes. Simultaneity is the key. Also we know that changes to chromosomes can occur without changes to its DNA. We talked about this several years back when the Cold Spring Conference first introduced the concept of the "bubble wrap" that is enclosing chromosomes and is responsible for gene expression.

I think this was when we first introduced the term 'epigenetics" on A2K
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 31 Jul, 2018 06:26 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
We cann logically assume that the information in the codes of qm biochemistry and DNa have an author just like the codes that come into existence today. That is a logical assumption made from observed patterns.
NO thats merely an assertion based only on a belief in a supernatural cause and effect. No organic P chem is involved (and stop saying QM, thats last century's discovery, ITS ALL QM. So its like your saying" Pizza Pie".
 

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