132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 02:08 pm
@gungasnake,
read the papergunga. You want to sound so NOT stupid that you make statements that are obvious that youve only read the damn abstract. Aa ABSTRACT provides a summary of the paper. It presents ,in brief, the main thoughts and only can present what evidence lies out there. The abstrqct stated quite clearly that evidence hqd (BEFORE 2002) been discovered (in ascending deposits between the Jurrasic qnd the Cretaceous) that clearly provided the development of feathers via the barbule ridge and follicle collar. Please reqd, dont try to sound icredulous when you are merely parading your ignornce. AFter you read it, then try to support your simple-assed claims .

You seem to be stuck on polar opposites of feather structure . Many many theropods had fethers that were intermediqte between early barbs qnd downy structure (WHICH btw, all bby birds demonstrate even todqy).
How do bby birds do it. Does q god step in a POOF thweir down feathers into flight fethers??

CMON red the paper as a student, not some priest whose "turf" is being questioned.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 05:44 pm
@farmerman,
It's difficult to over-ride religious beliefs. If they did, their world will crumble.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  3  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 07:31 pm
https://scontent.fhou1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/15941132_1388616611171203_1693467306966772564_n.jpg?oh=0657f6d13823fa6ce72521b4850b56c4&oe=59107E98
farmerman
 
  0  
Sun 15 Jan, 2017 07:17 am
@edgarblythe,
A complex social issue, succinctly presented.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Tue 17 Jan, 2017 08:37 pm
@edgarblythe,
Buddhists worship many gods?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Tue 17 Jan, 2017 08:41 pm
@hingehead,
Sh-h-h-h-h
Don't tell anybody. It's a secret.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  1  
Tue 17 Jan, 2017 08:56 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Buddhists worship many gods?


There is no worshipping in Buddhism. The six realms of transmigration do have Asuras and gods. But there is a split in the meaning. Some Buddhist think the Buddha was speaking metaphorically stating aspects of the mind. If you are in a god like state of mind you are overly arrogant and you take for granted your life span and lack empathy for other beings who you think are "beneath" you.

While other Buddhists believe the six realms are real states of being. You can become a god however it's not an ideal existence because you are subject to samsara.

So technically Buddhists believe that billions of gods exist but they don't worship them. They are still subject to samsara. Only humans have the neutral position needed for enlightenment.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 18 Jan, 2017 01:38 am
@hingehead,
Not only that, it's Chinese. This documentary says otherwise.

0 Replies
 
jeager
 
  1  
Wed 25 Jan, 2017 08:58 am
Who says evolution isn't the "tool" used by God to create life on
this rock?
jeager
 
  1  
Wed 25 Jan, 2017 08:59 am
Who says evolution isn't the tool God used to create all this?
0 Replies
 
jeager
 
  1  
Wed 25 Jan, 2017 09:01 am
This is soooooooooooo funny.
Why is this thread in the mental health forum?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Wed 25 Jan, 2017 10:30 am
@jeager,
Because back in the day anyone could tag a topic, and the top tags won. Clearly enough people thought the OP was unhinged in some way.
0 Replies
 
Lalida
 
  1  
Wed 1 Mar, 2017 04:19 pm
@JimmyJ,
I would say lack of understanding and self-defending for their own beliefs.
farmerman
 
  0  
Wed 1 Mar, 2017 05:17 pm
@Lalida,
Jimmy J's been gone . He went to med school with an eye to get a PhD in evolutionary Biology.

Good answer. sums it up succinctly and precisely.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Wed 1 Mar, 2017 11:54 pm
Quote:
Why do people deny evolution?


Mainly because it (evolutionism) is a bunch of bullshit, basically an ideological doctrine masquerading as a science theory.

For anybody who might have missed this previously:


A proof or disproof is a kind of a transaction. There is no such thing as absolutely proving or disproving something; there is only such a thing as proving or disproving something to SOMEBODY'S satisfaction. If the party of the second part is too thick or too ideologically committed to some other way of viewing reality, then the best proof in the world will fall flat and fail.

In the case of evolution, what you have is a theory which has been repeatedly and overwhelmingly disproved over a period of many decades now via a number of independent lines reasoning and yet the adherents go on with it as if nothing had happened and, in fact, demand that the doctrine be taught in public schools at public expense and that no other theory of origins even ever be mentioned in public schools, and attempt to enforce all of that via political power plays and lawsuits.

At that point, it is clear enough that no disproof or combination of disproofs would ever suffice, that the doctrine is in fact unfalsifiable and that Carl popper's criteria for a pseudoscience is in fact met.


The educated lay person is not aware of how overwhelmingly evolution has been debunked over the last century.

The following is a minimal list of entire categories of evidence disproving evolution:

The decades-long experiments with fruit flies beginning in the early 1900s. Those tests were intended to demonstrate macroevolution; the failure of those tests was so unambiguous that a number of prominent scientists disavowed evolution at the time.

The discovery of the DNA/RNA info codes (information codes do not just sort of happen...)

The fact that the info code explained the failure of the fruit-fly experiments (the whole thing is driven by information and the only info there ever was in that picture was the info for a fruit fly...)

The discovery of bio-electrical machinery within 1-celled animals.

The question of irreducible complexity.

The Haldane Dilemma. That is, the gigantic spaces of time it would take to spread any genetic change through an entire herd of animals.

The increasingly massive evidence of a recent age for dinosaurs. This includes soft tissue being found in dinosaur remains, good radiocarbon dates for dinosaur remains (blind tests at the University of Georgia's dating lab), and native American petroglyphs clearly showing known dinosaur types.

The fact that the Haldane dilemma and the recent findings related to dinosaurs amount to a sort of a time sandwich (evolutionites need quadrillions of years and only have a few tens of thousands).

The dna analysis eliminating neanderthals and thus all other hominids as plausible human ancestors.

The total lack of intermediate fossils where the theory demands that the bulk of all fossils be clear intermediate types. "Punctuated Equilibria" in fact amounts to an attempt to get around both the Haldane dilemma and the lack of intermediate fossils, but has an entirely new set of overwhelming problems of its own...

The question of genetic entropy.

The obvious evidence of design in nature.

The arguments arising from pure probability and combinatoric considerations.


Here's what I mean when I use the term "combinatoric considerations"...

The best illustration of how stupid evolutionism really is involves trying to become some totally new animal with new organs, a new basic plan for existence, and new requirements for integration between both old and new organs.

Take flying birds for example; suppose you aren't one, and you want to become one. You'll need a baker's dozen highly specialized systems, including wings, flight feathers, the specialized system which allows flight feathers to pivot so as to open on upstrokes and close to trap air on downstrokes (like a venetian blind), a specialized light bone structure, specialized flow-through design heart and lungs, specialized tail, specialized general balance parameters etc.

For starters, every one of these things would be antifunctional until the day on which the whole thing came together, so that the chances of evolving any of these things by any process resembling evolution (mutations plus selection) would amount to an infinitessimal, i.e. one divided by some gigantic number.

In probability theory, to compute the probability of two things happening at once, you multiply the probabilities together. That says that the likelihood of all these things ever happening, best case, is ten or twelve such infinitessimals multiplied together, i.e. a tenth or twelth-order infinitessimal. The whole history of the universe isn't long enough for that to happen once.

All of that was the best case. In real life, it's even worse than that. In real life, natural selection could not plausibly select for hoped-for functionality, which is what would be required in order to evolve flight feathers on something which could not fly apriori. In real life, all you'd ever get would some sort of a random walk around some starting point, rather than the unidircetional march towards a future requirement which evolution requires.

And the real killer, i.e. the thing which simply kills evolutionism dead, is the following consideration: In real life, assuming you were to somehow miraculously evolve the first feature you'd need to become a flying bird, then by the time another 10,000 generations rolled around and you evolved the second such reature, the first, having been disfunctional/antifunctional all the while, would have DE-EVOLVED and either disappeared altogether or become vestigial.

Now, it would be miraculous if, given all the above, some new kind of complex creature with new organs and a new basic plan for life had ever evolved ONCE.

Evolutionism, however (the Theory of Evolution) requires that this has happened countless billions of times, i.e. an essentially infinite number of absolutely zero probability events.

I ask you: What could be stupider than that?

Fruit flies breed new generations every few days. Running a continuous decades-long experiment on fruit flies will involve more generations of fruit flies than there have ever been of anything resembling humans on Earth. Evolution is supposed to be driven by random mutation and natural selection; they subjected those flies to everything in the world known to cause mutations and recombined the mutants every possible way, and all they ever got was fruit flies.

Richard Goldschmidt wrote the results of all of that up in 1940, noting that it was then obvious enough that no combination of mutation and selection could ever produce a new kind of animal.

There is no excuse for evolution to ever have been taught in schools after 1940.
gungasnake
 
  0  
Wed 1 Mar, 2017 11:56 pm
Anybody still trying to defend evolution(ism) at this juncture is either a low-information type or an ideologue.
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Wed 1 Mar, 2017 11:57 pm
@jeager,
Quote:
Who says evolution isn't the "tool" used by God to create life on
this rock?


God does not use broken tools.....
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Thu 2 Mar, 2017 05:22 am
@gungasnake,
Quote:
Anybody still trying to defend evolution(ism) at this juncture is either a low-information type or an ideologue
.

Jaeger, pay attention because this is how religious fanaticism precludes good learning.

When rev Doctor Wilberforce, one of Darwin' critics, was thrown from his horse and was killed when his head struck a rock, it was Thomas Huxley who said
"Im afraid that this is the first time that reality has entered Rev Wilberforce's brain"


Gunga always avoids any kind of reasoning inserted into in his printed assertions. Hes one of these religious believers whose belief system in "Creationism" is quickly "going extinct"(but he just doesnt realize it).

He avoids keeping up with evidence (For that hes just lazy as he stubbornly grasps onto the slippery pole of mythology).

He posts the same old tired Creationist bullshit that has been drafted by defiantly ignorant folks who are associated with a tiny minority of Fundamental Christians.(These Fundamentlist views of science have been adjudicated against in several US Supreme Court cases and many tens of cases in Federal District Courts. All of these cases were presented with ample scientific evidence which, as most of us know, has new data presented almost weekly

Then he is obsessing a false claim that his worldview is gaining support within REAL science(For that hes just "making-****-up" about something that is jut not true ). Maybe some day reality will enter HIS brain in a means that doesnt involve an inelastic collision.

0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 2 Mar, 2017 06:12 am
A book published in 2013 Grand Canyon -Monument to an Ancient Earth Is a good and honest text. Its a geologists view of the age of the Grand Canyon, nd by extension its also a comment on dating of the earth. Its redable and, its honest because it was written by a team of Evangelical Christian geologists. They take on "Young Earth Creationism" as a thought pattern that was dictated by a narrow POV derived from Genesis. (Any "belief" that the earth is between 6000 years to about 250000 yrs i considered Young Earthism)

The teachers edition stated, it may just make a student interested in earth sciences despite what was taught to them.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Thu 2 Mar, 2017 07:48 am
@gungasnake,
I'm not familiar with a few things on your list but there are more than enough known valid ones on it that even the orthodox evolution scientists are starting to question all the assumptions in evolution.

Evolution as it is, is starting to be recognized for what it is - A narrative explaining the available evidence rather than a scientific retracing of the actual steps, and it isn't holding water anymore. The conventional scientific evolutionists are still not ready to abandon the premise that it's 'all natural', they are just looking for a better narrative, a 'Third Way' as they call it.

Party on, I say
 

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