132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 05:26 pm
@Frugal1,
Quote:
bama's climate change initiative includes changing Earth's orbit
from elliptical to circular
In my youth, I used to spend good money to sound like you, after which I would feast on twinkies and coca cola
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  3  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 05:29 pm
@gungasnake,
Quote:
In the case of evolution, what you have is a theory which has been repeatedly and overwhelmingly disproved over a period of many decades
Now this guy has switched to mainlining his drugs of choice. Results are the same, you believe your own fairy tales.
Looks like you got heavily down-voted by people who can , and are allowed to, read science papers
farmerman
 
  3  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 05:37 pm
@farmerman,
A recent TED progrm discussed the evolutionary implications (ie nat selection qnd gene flow) of the genetic markers of the population of Shirpas in the deep Himalayas. Its not just an epigenetic marker. We know the time of peopling the higher altitude places of the world (the Himalayas were first) and the resultant gene marker that allows Shirpas to maintain high O2 efficiencies with elevation, re still being inserted into the population.

"Flat landers" have an O2 efficiency of like 78 to 82 % t high altitudes, whereas the shirpas with the markers have O2 efficiency of about 88 to 92% (almost full employment)
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 05:46 pm
@gungasnake,
Damn fine answer gunga
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 05:57 pm
@farmerman,
Another proof that animals, oooops, humans acclimate to the environment.
I just learned recently that Japanese are descended from Koreans traced by DNA.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 06:09 pm
@farmerman,
Gunga's opinions seem to have been petrified in amber over 40 years ago. As far as I can tell they haven't changed even the tiniest little bit from his first posts on A2K. I bet he's still cut/pasting from the original propaganda he used way back at the beginning.
Leadfoot
 
  -1  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 06:11 pm
@rosborne979,
Yeah, any idea that old has begun to stink badly so they must be replaced
farmerman
 
  2  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 06:45 pm
@Leadfoot,
It might be a good post , if it were even hd a slight association with facts. Weve known the development of the flight fether (non symmetricql rachis) from the fossil evidence from K amber.
The "follicle collqr" the little stem where the fibrils extend in downy fethers, an later symmetrical and finally non-symmetrical rqchii.These hqve shown several steps of evolution into a "Barbule ridge" , the segments of which have shown to produce the extended rachis with ultimalte pinnae . The fossil record has, since the early 2000's, shown us growing base of evidence about the evolution of all kinds of feathers from pre-Aves, through dinosaurs and Aves (even the dromeaoosaurs had feathers with symmetrical barbules growing out of the tubule ridges. Feathers qere lso sexual election marker, (Thqts why the "two step evolution hockey puck" of gunga is crap. Feathers qere a tool, no different than ears, the sinus cavities,(stirurups and anvils structures-which are inner ear structures, vribe types of eyes, hair and scales. As Ken Miller always said. Evolution is taking wht youve got and doing something different with it.


I wish some of you people would READ some more and quitpretending like you have a valid opinion about a subject of which you understand or know NOTHING.
Ive carried this " kiddy-kins debate" with gunga for years and I know hes allergic to facts and evidence and loves to post 50 yr old Creation crqp qnd sound convinced that its true. So believe me, doesnt need pats on the back for barfing up some **** he got from Dr Dino.It However, makes you look kinda dim as well. I know that gunga occupies a totqlly different pole of "reality" in just about qnything scientific and it goes from being hilarious to annoying in the spce of one post
HERE, heres another paper you may wish to peruse . (I know that you too, have a certain aversion to biology nd evolutionary facts and love to assert from a basis of a few new vocabulry words that youve picked up from somepopular science comic.

Prum R.O., and A. H. Brush 2002. Evolutionary diversification of Fetahers. QUARTERLY REVIEW of BIOLOGY, v77: 261-295.

If you cant get it lemme know and Ill direct you to a U library with open stacks
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 06:48 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ive just had a great supper and came to the tblet ns saw that post that Leadfoot annointed on gunga. I kinda ent into my teachr mode aith some idiot who's wasting classroom space when he could get a great job as a welder.
Gunga dosnt want to understn anything. Hes been repeting the same **** for years and he hqsnt read a damn thing past the free flyers he gets from the "Creationlnd Park" in Kentucky.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 06:50 pm
@rosborne979,
yeh, for gunga (and now Leadfoot), they believe that science has quit doing anything new and unique after Piltdown Man was found out
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 06:57 pm
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Yeah, any idea that old has begun to stink badly so they must be replaced
You must be shitting yourself cause you aint shitting most here. If its the "history of scientific ideas" thqt stirs your pot, then you must remember that qfter we went to the moon we discovered lot qbout Mars from a new research project (qnd very expensive field trip).
Science dint quit in 1969, qn our biggest discoveries in paaleo, evolution, and genetics have tken plqce well past the time from which gunga quotes (His paper may be from DI in the last decade
-but the ideas therein are waaay too old to be given any consideration except that they represent historical questions
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  2  
Fri 13 Jan, 2017 11:23 pm
@Frugal1,
Where do you get all this nonsense that you spout?
farmerman
 
  3  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 05:20 am
@MontereyJack,
Howdy--
Ive found the abstract of the Prum and Brush 2002 paper for LEADFOOT's benefit. This is the first "modern" paper on feather evolution since it showed that the finds of several Therazinosaurs, and Theropods, and that complex feathers were clearly evidencing evolutionary steps in the fossil record on dinosaurs like CAUDIPTERIX, VELOCIRAPROR, and even some Ornithichian dinosaurs like PROTOCERATOPS from late Jurassic through closure of the Cretaceous wipe out.(After Prum and Brush, there came a ton of scientific papers that sorta closed the feather argument that Creationists loved, and it was all done by an overwhelming treasure trove of feathered dino and bird fossils from all over the world- so the complete line from dinos to birds int a black hole with missing fossils anymore)
The feathers on the Theropods from China showed that a complex barbule ridge was developed which supported complex rachii and symmetrical feathers that were probably highly colored (the fossils showed only evidences of dark and light shades of browns

These feathers were probably used just for sexual selection or territory display (like a peacock's feathers).

Mid to late K bird species , while their feathers were adapted to flying , they still retained the evolutionary connection to Therapod fether structure with a complex rachis and barbule ridges.(Its an evidentiary fact that these early birds, like GANSUS (from Laioning China fossil beds), IBEROMESORNIS (from Spain chalk lagerstattes),ICHTHYORNIS(from the fossil beds of the US "inland sea" beds of the Cretaceous had modern bird features but retained the feathering patterns and bills with TEETH, (just like the dawn bird ARCHEOPTERYX from the LAte Jurassic.

Gunga'a story has never changed in the 12 years hes been here despite the fact that the data base from modern Paleo work has gone so much beyond his babblings of asserted "Truths" that he must be challenged to prevent rookies like Leadfot from being dazzled by the "shiny pieces of metal" that gunga acquires from Creationist web ites.

"FAKE NEWS" and "FAKE SCIENCE" have lots in common.Iwish gunga would learn

(Sorry for being a noodge but LEadfoot actually got me aroused when he was impressed by gunga's garbage and thought it was credible)


Quote:
The evolutionary origin and diversification of feathers.
Prum RO1, Brush AH.
Author information
Abstract
Progress on the evolutionary origin and diversification of feathers has been hampered by conceptual problems and by the lack of plesiomorphic feather fossils. Recently, both of these limitations have been overcome by the proposal of the developmental theory of the origin of feathers, and the discovery of primitive feather fossils on nonavian theropod dinosaurs. The conceptual problems of previous theories of the origin of feathers are reviewed, and the alternative developmental theory is presented and discussed. The developmental theory proposes that feathers evolved through a series of evolutionary novelties in developmental mechanisms of the follicle and feather germ. The discovery of primitive and derived fossil feathers on a diversity of coelurosaurian theropod dinosaurs documents that feathers evolved and diversified in nonavian theropods before the origin of birds and before the origin of flight. The morphologies of these primitive feathers are congruent with the predictions of the developmental theory. Alternatives to the theropod origin of feathers are critique and rejected. Hypotheses for the initial function of feathers are reviewed. The aerodynamic theory of feather origins is falsified, but many other functions remain developmentally and phylogenetically plausible. Whatever their function, feathers evolved by selection for a follicle that would grow an emergent tubular appendage. Feathers are inherently tubular structures. The homology of feathers and scales is weakly supported. Feathers are composed of a suite of evolutionary novelties that evolved by the duplication, hierarchical organization, interaction, dissociation, and differentiation of morphological modules. The unique capacity for modular subdivision of the tubular feather follicle and germ has fostered the evolution of numerous innovations that characterize feathers. The evolution of feather keratin and the molecular basis of feather development are also discussed



Most of the honest Creationists like Steve Austen have pretty much shut up about the "feather mystery" ever since the mid 2000's. In that respwect gunga doesnt even know hes a Luddite among his own crowd of chosen authorities

0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 07:47 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

yeh, for gunga (and now Leadfoot), they believe that science has quit doing anything new and unique after Piltdown Man was found out

I think Leadfoot is just yanking your chain. Gunga on the other hand is as real as a rock.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 08:04 am
@gungasnake,
Not to mention the fact that feathers, let alone flight feathers, don't seem to be a prerequisite for flight at all. Neither bats nor pterosaurs, the so-called "flying dinosaurs" were feathered and they have been around (or were around) for millions of years, and the pterosaurs got pretty damned big. and still flapped damned well ws.ithout feather
Gunga is confusing what we have now, after 150,000,000 years of probably steadily better adaptation to flight, with the minimum they would have had to have 150M years ago to get off the ground.
FAIL, gunga.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 09:04 am
@farmerman,
Wow, all that prompted by my innocuous 4 word post

Quote:
(I know that you too, have a certain aversion to biology nd evolutionary facts... quitpretending like you have a valid opinion about a subject of which you understand or know NOTHING.

The only meat in your post sandwiches are insults like these.
I've already read much of the literature you've suggested. Yes, it has a lot of raw data laboriously collected but they in no way 'prove' the unguided evolution theory.

Your position reminds me of your (correct) observation that the 'rabid Creationists' of the type you often mention are concocting their theory in the same way that rabid Evolutionists concoct theirs - by fitting the scattered and incomplete facts into a scenario that they have already decided on.

By lumping me in with those 'Creationists' you lose all credibility with me.
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 10:01 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
but they in no way 'prove' the unguided evolution theory.
If its proof you seek, take some philosophy or geometry courses, science deals in evidence and reproducable expeeiment and discovery. If you cnnot be convinced from really clear and compelling evidence, I must place you in the "gungasnake category".

Did'ya ever notice that hes got no evidence to support anything he believes in. All he (and also you) can do, is to try to convince everyone else that the evidence of science goes nowhere and then ply on insults (which, by association you inherit ) .
To do that you have an equal burden of evidence needed. Better get crackin or youll be quickly passed by an accelerating passenger train
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 10:07 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
all that prompted by my innocuous 4 word post
If you were a really objectively interested individual , Id agree that it was an" innocuous 4 word post". Coming from you, a nascent gunga accolyte, I take deep offense because you seem to wish to celebrate ignorance.
As an old teacher, I cant allow that , you have to be smarter than that.
If you take offense at my "insults" better get used to em if you dont remember my other appeals to your intelligence.
Denying without evidence-is the role pf science
Accepting without evidence, is the role of religion.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 11:43 am
@Leadfoot,
There is overwhelming evidence, whether or not you accept it as proof depends on whether you're a reasonable person or a religious fanatic. Both the current pope and archbishop of Canterbury are reasonable people in this regard.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Sat 14 Jan, 2017 01:36 pm
Quote:
....Progress on the evolutionary origin and diversification of feathers has been hampered by conceptual problems and by the lack of plesiomorphic feather fossils. Recently, both of these limitations have been overcome by the proposal of the developmental theory of the origin of feathers, and the discovery of primitive feather fossils on nonavian theropod dinosaurs. The conceptual problems of previous theories of the origin of feathers are reviewed, and the alternative developmental theory is presented and discussed. The developmental theory proposes that feathers evolved through a series of evolutionary novelties in developmental mechanisms of the follicle and feather germ. ....


That's called "bafflegab" ('...if you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit...')...

Again the problem. To get from anything without feathers to a flying bird via evolutionism you need at least two mutations: One which changes fur or scales into down feathers, and another to change the down feathers into flight feathers, BUT ONLY ON THE CREATURES ARMS WHERE THEY WILL BE NEEDED AFTER SOME OTHER MUTATION CHANGES THOSE ARMS INTO WINGS.

What kind of mutation is going to change the down feathers into flight feathers only on the creature's arms, and not on his head, his stomach, his a**, or his d***???

Anybody who can't see how ridiculous that is, is either too thick to see how ridiculous it is or is a total ideologue.
 

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