132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 01:30 am
@martinies,
That one being you, seems. I've never heard a scientist refer to it as magical.
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 02:13 am
@FBM,
Time dilation. Dont reckon consciousness time dilates because it is the stationary thing in all frames of reference regs c. Only moving things in time dilate to c.
Ionus
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 02:58 am
@FBM,
Medieval Latin supernātūrālis. Even such a thing as the surface of the sun is supernatural, given the origins of the word in Medieval Times . If you want to refer to the supernatural as ghosts or goblins, fine, but it seems the originators would definitely have included modern day physics .

Magic or sorcery is an attempt to understand and exploit supernatural forces, using rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language. Which Physicists do not use symbols and language to describe the supernatural ? Or mathematicians for that matter . Do you know of any ? I say they all do .
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 03:03 am
@martinies,
martinies wrote:

Time dilation. Dont reckon consciousness time dilates because it is the stationary thing in all frames of reference regs c. Only moving things in time dilate to c.


Again, it's going to take more than a priori speculative claims. Angels dancing on the heads of pins, and whatnot. You'll need to show evidence and necessary inference.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 03:07 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Magic or sorcery is an attempt to understand and exploit supernatural forces, using rituals, symbols, actions, gestures and language. Which Physicists do not use symbols and language to describe the supernatural ? Or mathematicians for that matter . Do you know of any ? I say they all do .


You seem to be begging the question there. If magic is inherent in the definition of supernatural, then you're saying that magic is the attempt to understand magic.
Ionus
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 03:19 am
@FBM,
Show me an atom . Now show me two atoms . Now smash them together . Show me the result . Magic !
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 04:16 am
@Ionus,
If we take consciousness to be the only real fact all else is fiction. Everything is therefore fiction around your consciousness. Or more correctly consciousness. So for example a lion is the fictional event for the lions consciousness the real identity of the lion is consciousness with a lions brain and form inside it. The exact samething applies to man. But mans brain is special in that it can self reflect as conscience thats why vice is guilt in consciousness.
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 07:26 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Show me an atom . Now show me two atoms . Now smash them together . Show me the result . Magic !


Why would that be magic? It's a well-studied phenomenon. Are you drifting towards an ad ignorantiam appeal? Anything that is unknown is magic?
parados
 
  2  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 08:29 am
@martinies,
Quote:
If we take consciousness to be the only real fact all else is fiction.

I guess that stands as evidence your premise is silly.
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:29 am
@parados,
Well if you have eternal life its got to be that way brov.
parados
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:36 am
@martinies,
More evidence of your silly premise?

Let's simply assume things that don't exist and then pretend that is the basis for facts. Rolling Eyes
Herald
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:46 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
There's this thing called a mouse.
     This is not entirely bad advise ... that you can give to yourself. Do you know when the second law of the thermodynamics has been discovered and by whom ... and how much is the maximal copyright term on scientific and technical discoveries and patents. Actually this is fundamental science and the results go directly into public domain without any copyright.
FBM wrote:
Mr. Alien/ILF/g0d-of-the-gaps.
     So and so you are perceiving yourself as an alien, why don't you tell us which is the greatest achievement of the terrestrial science ... from the point of view of your favourite aliens?
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:59 am
@parados,
You obviously dont believe in super natrual consciousness then me old china.
farmerman
 
  2  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 12:13 pm
@martinies,
" supernatural" , as a science concept , was decided against in the Dover trial. Experts for the ID side (especially Dr Behe, tried to convince the cross examiner that "astrology" was scientific.
AND THERE BLEW ANY REMAINING CREDIBILITY
martinies
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 12:30 pm
@farmerman,
Well I can understand that. But death could be supernatural and if it is then the supernatural controls how forms evolve.
farmerman
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 01:00 pm
@martinies,
Your use of "IF" drags up lots of guessing no? I think you may have it partly right.
Extinction of a species IS a mechanism that surely does drive evolution by removing residents of any occupied niches, and Is probably part of the whole scheme of adaptation or extinction.
BUT, you seem to deny adaptation entirely or the many other modes. Things adapt for many reasons besides extinction of a neighbor.
martinies
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 01:36 pm
@farmerman,
Well its always best policy to put a few ifs in. Whats always amazed me is some of the cave adaptations .where individual caves have forms adapted to just that cave. Or stuff living miles down in the ocean around some volcanic outlet.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 06:41 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
There's this thing called a mouse.
     This is not entirely bad advise ... that you can give to yourself. Do you know when the second law of the thermodynamics has been discovered and by whom ... and how much is the maximal copyright term on scientific and technical discoveries and patents. Actually this is fundamental science and the results go directly into public domain without any copyright.
FBM wrote:
Mr. Alien/ILF/g0d-of-the-gaps.
     So and so you are perceiving yourself as an alien, why don't you tell us which is the greatest achievement of the terrestrial science ... from the point of view of your favourite aliens?



They're your aliens. You made the claim. You do have a serious memory problem, don't you? You might want to have that checked out. You don't even remember that I don't care for red herring, despite being told a dozen times. You also seem to keep forgetting to post evidence for your alien/ILF/god-thingy-of-the-gaps... Laughing
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 09:45 pm
@farmerman,
For some, merely uttering the words "natural selection" is presented as though it were some kind of magical incantation that resolves all questions. It serves as a talisman that repels all threats to orthodox evolutionary theory, and as a virtually omnipotent actor that can accomplish just about anything, no matter how seemingly impossible. Kinda like God, ya know?
hingehead
 
  2  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:06 pm
@layman,
Care to name these people?

This sounds ludicrous (my emphasis):
LM wrote:
a talisman that repels all threats to orthodox evolutionary theory
Kinda like God, ya know?


Sounds kinda like you're drawing a long bow, ya know?
 

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