132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:11 pm
@FBM,
Have you ever seen a magic act ? It is the unknown that makes it magic . Unless of course you really think people can disappear...
layman
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:11 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
This sounds ludicrous (my emphasis): LM wrote: "a talisman that repels all threats to orthodox evolutionary theory.


What is "ludicrous" about the word "theory," I wonder?
layman
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:14 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. (Arthur C. Clarke)


0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:19 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
was decided against in the Dover trial
Did you believe/agree with the result before or after the trial ? I make up my own mind and have a poor opinion of experts, esp as things change so quickly with new knowledge but the experts are always resisting that change . What is the value of your life if towards the end when you are an expert and some young upstart proves your life's work was based on a fallacy ?

Astrology, IF based on gravity and radiation may have a very limited basis in science . Animals have been known to flee disaster areas long before man's science detected anything . (now dont come back in two years time with the lie that I believe in Astrology) .
Ionus
 
  0  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:21 pm
@layman,
Quote:
For some, merely uttering the words "natural selection" is presented as though it were some kind of magical incantation
Yes, but to incur the magic of it you have to shout it at a questioner...or chant to yourself, either way is good .
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:37 pm
@layman,
Ooh. Selective quoting.

Noice.
0 Replies
 
layman
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 10:59 pm
@hingehead,
Even the highly atheistic, staunchly pro-neodarwinian philosopher of science, Michael Ruse, says his friend and ally, Richard Dawkins (among others), treats science, especially evolutionary theory, as a religion.

And the eminent (atheistic) philosopher, Thomas Nagel, while not believing in ID theory, does NOT deny that it is entitled to be considered science. He also sees the zealous faith displayed by those who oppose it:

Quote:
Even though writers like Michael Behe and Stephen Meyer are motivated at least in part by their religious beliefs, the empirical arguments they offer against the likelihood that the origin of life and its evolutionary history can be fully explained by physics and chemistry are of great interest in themselves.

I believe the defenders of intelligent design deserve our gratitude for challenging a scientific world view that owes some of the passion displayed by its adherents precisely to the fact that it is thought to liberate us from religion. That world view is ripe for displacement....


"Mind and Cosmos: Why the Materialist Neo-Darwinian Conception of Nature Is Almost Certainly False" (by Nagel, Chapter 1)
layman
 
  1  
Tue 21 Apr, 2015 11:21 pm
@layman,
As wiki sums up Nagel's views on Neo-Darwinism and ID theory as "science:"

Quote:
Nagel is a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and a Corresponding Fellow of the British Academy, and has held fellowships from the Guggenheim Foundation, the National Science Foundation, and the National Endowment for the Humanities.[2] In 2008, he was awarded a Rolf Schock Prize for his work in philosophy,[3] the Balzan prize,[4] and the honorary degree of Doctor of Letters from the University of Oxford.[5]

In his Mind and Cosmos (2012), Nagel argues against a materialist view of the emergence of life and consciousness, writing that the standard neo-Darwinian view flies in the face of common sense.[8] He argues that the principles that account for the emergence of life may be teleological, rather than materialist or mechanistic.[9]

Nagel is an atheist and not a proponent of intelligent design (ID). He writes in Mind and Cosmos that he lacks the sensus divinitatis that would allow him see the world in terms of divine purpose. He disagrees with both ID defenders and their opponents, who argue that the only naturalistic alternative to ID is the current reductionist neo-Darwinian model.[10] He has argued that ID should not be rejected as non-scientific. He wrote in 2008 that "ID is very different from creation science," and that the debate about ID "is clearly a scientific disagreement, not a disagreement between science and something else."[11]

Nagel does not accept Meyer's conclusions but he endorsed Meyer's approach, and argued in Mind and Cosmos that Meyer and other ID proponents, David Berlinski and Michael Behe, "do not deserve the scorn with which they are commonly met."[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Nagel
hingehead
 
  2  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 12:33 am
@layman,
Deflection.

You gonna work your way through all seven stages of bullshit?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 12:38 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Have you ever seen a magic act ? It is the unknown that makes it magic . Unless of course you really think people can disappear...


A magic act is exactly that: an act. We're not talking about performers staging illusions for an audience, are we? We're talking about science. That's pretty disingenuous of you. Again, do you know of any physicists who make the claim that observed phenomena are the result of magic?
martinies
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 12:57 am
@FBM,
Uri geller
Ionus
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:05 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Again, do you know of any physicists who make the claim that observed phenomena are the result of magic?
Again, I answer, yes, most of them .

Quote:
We're not talking about performers staging illusions for an audience, are we?
We're not ? Large Hadron Collider ? Can you duplicate THAT magic trick ? Illusionists get paid for you not knowing how they do it . Do you know how to duplicate the tricks of Physicists or Magicians ? Physicists get paid for trying to explain their magic with gooblyspeak...seen any other dimensions ? Heard the Big Bang ? Are you able to comprehend the size of the Universe ? Had a bath with quantum foam lately ?
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:06 am
@martinies,
You.can't.be.serious.

0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:08 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Again, do you know of any physicists who make the claim that observed phenomena are the result of magic?
Again, I answer, yes, most of them .

Quote:
We're not talking about performers staging illusions for an audience, are we?
We're not ? Large Hadron Collider ? Can you duplicate THAT magic trick ? Illusionists get paid for you not knowing how they do it . Do you know how to duplicate the tricks of Physicists or Magicians ? Physicists get paid for trying to explain their magic with gooblyspeak...seen any other dimensions ? Heard the Big Bang ? Are you able to comprehend the size of the Universe ? Had a bath with quantum foam lately ?


Rhetoric is cheap. Let's see your evidence.
Ionus
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:11 am
@FBM,
Quote:
Let's see your evidence.
??? You do know that the evidence belongs to a select few, just like any good magic act . Leave the people in shock and awe is good physics and good magic .
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:15 am
@Ionus,
More disingenuous waffling and equivocation? Your evidence for your claim, which is that you can list physicists that believe in magic. Show us.
layman
 
  1  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:20 am
@FBM,
Magic is like "suspended" states in QM where contradictions (like a cat is BOTH dead and alive) get resolved (if, and only if, they happen to be observed) by creating alternate universes for each indeterminate outcome, ya know?

It just so happens that many, perhaps most, physicists believe just that kind of "magic."

Quote:
The many-worlds interpretation is an interpretation of quantum mechanics that asserts the objective reality of the universal wavefunction and denies the actuality of wavefunction collapse. Many-worlds implies that all possible alternate histories and futures are real, each representing an actual "world" (or "universe"). In lay terms, the hypothesis states there is a very large—perhaps infinite[2]—number of universes, and everything that could possibly have happened in our past, but did not, has occurred in the past of some other universe or universes. The theory is also referred to as MWI, the relative state formulation, the Everett interpretation, the theory of the universal wavefunction, many-universes interpretation, or just many-worlds.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worlds_interpretation
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:30 am
@layman,
If you have to put scare quotes around it, it's not the standard definition of magic. That's hedging and it's dishonest.
layman
 
  1  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:32 am
@FBM,
OK. It's MAGIC, by God, nothing less. How's that?

A rose by any other name, etc.

I'm not sure even an occult high priest of voodoo could come up with that tale and have his followers believe it.
FBM
 
  0  
Wed 22 Apr, 2015 01:37 am
@layman,
So now all you need is evidence.
 

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