132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
farmerman
 
  2  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 03:48 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
One could as well argue that an electric power plant involved no design in that we can explain and define the transformation of chemical potential energy into heat
Not even in the same boat. A chemical reaction can occur by interactions of energy and elements. If an early earth is full of metnae and Ammonia and phosphate salts and CO2 with a specific pH range. amino acids can form. Amino acids can polymerize without esign (we see it all in the labs). Contruction of a very very simple life form, if it ever happens in a lab, should be evidence enough that the initiation of life is not close to design of a power plant.

Quote:
Perhaps a straw man here.
No, my "intervention example" is one of ALIEN INTERVENTION.

Quote:
only the truly absurd notion that it somehow explains the origin of the universe.
And so, you agree with me. I started my post with the admonition that conflating the birth of the universe and evolution have not a lick to do with each other except tht one had to happen as a "host"
georgeob1
 
  1  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 05:06 pm
@farmerman,
Then we agree.
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  -1  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 09:51 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
The hurricane exampls is a extension of your nonsense about if we knew enough about DNA we would be able to make vaccines and medicines "in under and hour."
     Can you prove that this is false with any serious tools (different from logical fallacies)?
FBM wrote:
You seem to be the only one here who can't follow those simple logical steps.
     Some people are making straw-men, others are dealing with ad homs all the time (for it is much easier to do that instead of looking for some real evidence in support or against something) ... that is life.
FBM wrote:
You're back to making bold claims without logical or empirical support.
     I have had great teachers, like for example the phenomenons believing in the justification of the big bang 'theory' and the evolution.
FBM wrote:
Rather than just making spurious claims, how about showing us exaclty what's wrong with Big Bang cosmology.
     You are talking about logic all the time, but in math logic, nothing can exist as a theoretical construct - as a theory (let alone in the physical world) if it has self-contradictions. The Big Bang theory is full of self-contradictions of any kind, so I don't know where to start from. If the universe is formed by expansion into the hyperspace (whatever this might mean, and whatever that hyperspace might be), why is it at one and the same age everywhere (the age is not my claim - it is scientific 'evidence')?
FBM wrote:
Explain exactly how the theory of evolution is based on fake logic.
     If we the humans (and the species of the flora and fauna) are evolving continuously as a result of various 'positive mutations' (whatever these might be), how are the species preserved as such. Why don't we all look like the strains of the viruses - each new year a brand new 'star' hardly fittable into any taxonomy? How does that happen ... or sooner is not happening?
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 10:23 pm
@Herald,
You wouldn't know real evidence if it stared you in the face! LOL You're too dumb.

Your denial about science and evolution tells us enough about you to see you're scared shytless about denying your god.

You're a very sad person who denies all the evidence of science and evolution.

All while you're inability to provide ONE EVIDENCE for your god.

You're an idiot. Yup, that was an ad hom that fits you to a "I."

Imbecile.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 10:27 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
The hurricane exampls is a extension of your nonsense about if we knew enough about DNA we would be able to make vaccines and medicines "in under and hour."
     Can you prove that this is false with any serious tools (different from logical fallacies)?


http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

Quote:
Stages of Vaccine Development and Testing

In the United States, vaccine development and testing follow a standard set of steps. The first stages are exploratory in nature. Regulation and oversight increase as the candidate vaccine makes its way through the process.

First Steps: Laboratory and Animal Studies

Exploratory Stage
This stage involves basic laboratory research and often lasts 2-4 years. Federally funded academic and governmental scientists identify natural or synthetic antigens that might help prevent or treat a disease. These antigens could include virus-like particles, weakened viruses or bacteria, weakened bacterial toxins, or other substances derived from pathogens.

Pre-Clinical Stage
Pre-clinical studies use tissue-culture or cell-culture systems and animal testing to assess the safety of the candidate vaccine and its immunogenicity, or ability to provoke an immune response. Animal subjects may include mice and monkeys. These studies give researchers an idea of the cellular responses they might expect in humans. They may also suggest a safe starting dose for the next phase of research as well as a safe method of administering the vaccine.

Researchers may adapt the candidate vaccine during the pre-clinical state to try to make it more effective. They may also do challenge studies with the animals, meaning that they vaccinate the animals and then try to infect them with the target pathogen. Challenge studies are never conducted in humans.

Many candidate vaccines never progress beyond this stage because they fail to produce the desired immune response. The pre-clinical stages often lasts 1-2 years and usually involves researchers in private industry.


Quote:
...If the universe is formed by expansion into the hyperspace (whatever this might mean, and whatever that hyperspace might be), why is it at one and the same age everywhere (the age is not my claim - it is scientific 'evidence')?


If space-time and energy came into being in an instant, how could it be different ages in different places? Are your feet older than your head?

Quote:
If we the humans (and the species of the flora and fauna) are evolving continuously as a result of various 'positive mutations' (whatever these might be), how are the species preserved as such. Why don't we all look like the strains of the viruses - each new year a brand new 'star' hardly fittable into any taxonomy? How does that happen ... or sooner is not happening?


I can barely ascertain any logic in this. (No offense, but is English your native language? If not, I can understand that there may be some linguistic barrier you're having to overcome.) Each individual's DNA is unique, unless they're identical twins. This is readily demonstrable in many labs worldwide, where DNA coding takes place.

Aside from unique combinations of one's parents' DNA, random mutations can occur for a number of reasons: http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/IIIC1aRandom.shtml

Not all mutations are passed on when parent DNA combine in the zygote, as it gets only half of each parent's genetic code.

http://www.geneticseducation.nhs.uk/mededu/the-basis-of-genetic-conditions/dna-is-passed-on-from-parent-to-child

Most mutations are inconsequential, having no effect on the organism. For a mutation to alter an entire species, many, many, many populations of that species have to live and die over many, many, many years. Natural selection doesn't happen in a generation or two. Therefore, while you are genetically and phenotypically unique (assuming you're not an identical twin), your DNA is still 99.9% identical to that of every other human. That 0.1% is all that is responsible for whatever differentiates you from other humans.

cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 10:29 pm
@FBM,
Herald is an idiot; he will deny any such thing exists. LOL
Herald
 
  -1  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 10:40 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:
Herald is an idiot; he will deny any such thing exists. LOL
     O.K., Mr. Phenomenon, you know that the Big Bang 'theory' has created the Universe, and that the Big Bang Itself is expanding into the Hyperspace - O.K., and the question is: who has created the Hyperspace in the first place ... and has divided it into Our Space (the Universe) & external Hyperspace? ... and how did you come to know that the Universe is Ours ... and that we are all alone in it ... and that we are the first and still the best.
     One last question: How many dimensions has the Hyperspace and do the parallel Worlds exist ... and what are your credentials in some of the parallel Worlds?
Herald
 
  -1  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 10:45 pm
@FBM,
     I was not asking that (how vaccines are made today). I was asking: can you prove that notwithstanding that you may have ALL the knowledge and information about life and its driving processes it is STILL impossible to make a vaccine ... or to design and tooth auto-implant within the available time (few hours, few days, for example)?
     The case when we don't have all the knowledge is not interesting. We can observe it everyday, no matter whether FM denies that or not.
      ... and the bottom line is: we are missing key information about a lot of things - obviously.
FBM
 
  2  
Thu 13 Nov, 2014 11:20 pm
@Herald,
And you're not interested in what we do know; you're just looking for some rhetorical gap to stick your god into.

http://www.icr.org/article/gaps-the-god-gaps/

ci is right. There's no point in producing evidence to someone who doesn't regard evidence as meaningful.
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 01:09 am
@FBM,
Quote:
ci is right. There's no point in producing evidence to someone who doesn't regard evidence as meaningful.


As the evolutions prove so clearly: evidence has to be INTERPRETED.

And evolutionsts are good at interpreting nearly everything as evidence for their rather idiotic theory! It is like an obsessiosn to them! they are blind.
You see, they can't think logically and they even can't distuingish between
'evidence' and the interpretation of evidence!
How convenient for them! give them a dead stone and they see the evidence for evolution all over the stone and don't understand it is only in their minds.
A stone is a stone is a stone is....

In the meantime, I am still waiting for the evidence I asked for!
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  -2  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 05:20 am
And of course there are the idiotic indoctrination books!
http://images.booksense.com/images/922/618/9789814618922.jpg



But of course you are not allowd to laugh! Smile Smile Smile
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  -1  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 10:00 am
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
There's no point in producing evidence to someone who doesn't regard evidence as meaningful.
     ... and what is your definition of evidence. What do you accept as evidence (besides observations) - there are at least five other types of evidence.
parados
 
  2  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 10:13 am
@Herald,
If you want to know who or what created something Herald then we are left with a never ending progression of who or what created the who or what that created the who or what that created and on and on into infinity.


FBM
 
  2  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 10:30 am
@Herald,
Interesting how you conveniently elided the majority of my argument there. Wink

Why "besides observations"? Slanting the playing field a bit, don't you think? Have you ever observed your god? A miracle? A spirit or soul? Even your own? (Outside your imagination, I mean.)

Observation and necessary inference. In the phrase "necessary inference," the word "necessary" is pivotal here. Independent researchers across the globe compare two DNA samples and find that they are 99.9% identical (common and mundane events). A necessary inference is that whatever phenotypical disparities manifested between the two organisms are the result of that final 0.1% genotypical disparity. An out-of-your-ass conclusion is that a supernatural, invisible super-being from Bronze Age mythology injected some sort of equally invisible and undetectable soul or spirit into a mass of organic protoplasm that makes him or her unique and somehow immortal, destined to inhabit equally invisible and undetectable abodes such as heaven or hell for all eternity, depending on how well they worship that being that is so ardently using its super-powers to hide from them.

What have you actually observed? Apparently, predominantly old stories (drilled into you by older people who were in positions of authority over you) that made you feel good and immortal, and that you had a close, dear friend who runs the universe who would save you from yourself if only you believed hard enough and spent enough of your time praising "him" and cajoling others into the same behavior.

Observation and necessary inference. Think it over.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 10:52 am
@FBM,
All 'they' know what to do is deny, deny, and more denials. When we ask them one very simple question, they ignore it.

It's a merry-go-round not worth the 'ride' when we all understand the same rhetorical ignorant questions coming from their side, and no answers coming on one basic question.

They can't see their own inconsistency. They want us to prove everything (and all their questions are inane), but they can't prove one thing!

And they keep at it! TNCFS

FBM
 
  1  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 11:00 am
@cicerone imposter,
True that. They demand that science explain every nanosecond of the 13.7 billion years since the Big Bang, but ask them to provide a single, miniscule scrap of evidence for their god? Bwaahahahaha! Not a chance. Ridiculous.

However, it is educational to engage them. It teaches us how to be diligent and merciless in finding flaws in our own reasoning by pinpointing their logical fallacies. For me, anyway. YMMV.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 11:45 am
18 Reasons Why Evolution Is Totally And Completely Fake

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/evolution-aint-real?bffb
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  0  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 12:16 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
If you want to know who or what created something Herald then we are left with a never ending progression of who or what created the who or what that created the who or what that created and on and on into infinity.
     So you suggest that the Universe is matrioshka doll ... to infinity.

RE: ... who or what that created the who or what that created ...
     That is exactly what I am trying to say - the more distant assumptions we make the faker and more groundless they obviously become. We cannot claim that the Hyperspace exists for we have no perception to verify that ... so what is the idea to dispute whether the Hyperspace is 4D or 11D and whether the Universe is expanding into the Hyperspace, or the Hyperspace is shrinking into our world.
     I have another question: how did it happen so that we (the Earth) are into the 'center' of the Universe - absolutely equal red shift in all directions. How has that job happened?
farmerman
 
  1  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 12:26 pm
@Herald,
Lets see if you can understand some Euro and US centric TV show. Heres its opening credits

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  0  
Fri 14 Nov, 2014 12:31 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
All 'they' know what to do is deny, deny, and more denials. When we ask them one very simple question, they ignore it.

Very good point. The same thing happened on the Jesus denial thread: the deniers are happy to shoot down what others are saying, but when you ask them what THEY think about how christianity came into being, they remain very very silent...

In short, deniers rarely offer their own knowledge because they only care to undermine other people's knowledge.
 

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