Why do people deny evolution?

@FBM,

The argument from authority is a great point. We often go to conferences to disagree.

People not in science have no idea how brutal it can be . The last time we take things on authority is in grad school and most times there we do the equations and repeat the experiments and go visit many of the field sites.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

People not in science have no idea how brutal it can be . The last time we take things on authority is in grad school and most times there we do the equations and repeat the experiments and go visit many of the field sites.

But still blined then? Hmm.

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@FBM,

Through their training????????????????????????

lol

indoctriantion is more like it! They are even blinded to see things not in their little box

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@farmerman,

Yeah, the argument from authority can be tricky. I teach at university and my students are often as freshmen eager to trust me as an authority whose answers are ultimate. I often show them that I don't know everything and can make mistakes. They seem to take it pretty well and sometimes we wrangle over something regarding linguistis or pedagogy (they don't usually feel that confident until they're juniors, though). Of course, in the end, I'm always right. Not. Very Happy

When they teach me something, I heap praise upon them. They're actually pretty damn sharp sometimes, even as undergrads.

This freedom to challenge me is, to them, revelatory. Korea is still a heavily Confucian country where overt disagreement with elders and authority figures is sharply discouraged. I try to give them the courage to say, more or less, "**** authority. What is the consensus among the relevant experts?" Like that.

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@FBM,

Quote:

I teach at university

That says a lot! So you are being so extremely thoroughly indoctrinated to indoctrinate the other generations!
I am not kidding, Find out for yourself If you have he courage to do so, because if you find out it is correct what I am saying you have to leave your job if you want to keep you integrity.
Of course you can try to keep your integrity by denialing all this,
But not for too long.

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@FBM,

Id purposely misquote or screw up an equation and watch as the kids would jump all over me.
When people accuse kids of being "indoctrinated" I usually can seethat somewhere in that accuser's life, they were let down with failure BUT they didn't have the desire to rise up and use the failure as a lesson to overcome. Instead theyd begin holding grudges AGAINST some "systemic problem" that they blame on all education. Failure is a lesson, Most people learn well from it.
They seem to ignore a fact that where would we get all the scientists engineers, doctors, accountants, historians, nurses, chefs, surveyors, architects , etc

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@Quehoniaomath,

Quote:

we are way, way too dependent on the 'EXPERTS'!

I'm sure you don't rely on NHS for your health care. I am curious. Do you do your own doctoring or do you have the farmer down the road conduct any surgery you might need? Is he the one that performed the lobotomy on you?

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@parados,

Quote:

I'm sure you don't rely on NHS for your health care. I am curious. Do you do your own doctoring or do you have the farmer down the road conduct any surgery you might need? Is he the one that performed the lobotomy on you?

well, well, well, it seems that you are not aware that people are KILLED by the medical system!
It is the the third cause of death!
So, NO, I have never seen a mainstream(!) doctor! And I hope I never will! They are too dangerous to my health, thank you!

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@FBM,

I think we all agree that the argument from authority doesn't prove anything from a logical perspective.

However, that said, human beings are very inclined to either support or challenge authority to advance their personal intersts, and that isn't likely to change. Folks in the knowledge business, including poth professionals and academics, are demonstrably very fond of their authority and the protections it gives them. Academic tenure, professional licensing for medical doctors, engineers, geologists, etc are self-serving devices for restraining competition. They are justified by other arguments, but the restraint on competition is their primary effect. Indeed footnotes in academic literature are a living testimony to the fondness of scientists and academics for repeated acknowledgment of their work and preeminence in the facts at hand.

I've spent a good deal of time in the military, business and academic worlds, and, of the three, my strong impression is the academic one is by far the most hierarchical.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

I've spent a good deal of time in the military, business and academic worlds, and, of the three, my strong impression is the academic one is by far the most hierarchical.

Thanks and spot on! and why is this? Because of what I wrote earlier:control! the universities are controlled from the top in a rigorous way. One of the controllers is the satanic (yes, literally) Rothschilds & the Rockefellers, and to put it lighty they don't have the best for humanity in mind!

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@georgeob1,

agree pretty much in all ranks. BUT, having said that, Im sure your professional licensure requires MINIMUM competence and , with the professional stanards and practices, it has a major role in discipline and punishment .

Attaining a license for professions that require them , definitely has a pathway to licensure, and in most cases, it requires a kind of apprenticeship. We may call it "limitation to access" but is there a better way?.

If Unis are most hierarchical, it mostly because theres a limited amount of resources being saught after by so many individual diiciplines. The formation of STEM and Interdisciplenary Research centers is a fairly recent thing in HS's an colleges.

Education is the primary means to get the skills. Experience nd apprenticeship is where most of those skills are honed.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

competence

competence????

LOL

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@Quehoniaomath,

How can anyone arrive at the conclusion you have when universities educate the masses on many different subjects and skills. When has math, biology and chemistry been controlled by those satanic rich guys? How? When? Where?

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@Quehoniaomath,

My intention was not to endorse the views you have been expressing here.

Institutions of all kinds are controlled and influenced by human beings, with all of their many faults. Happily all such authority is indeed challenged and faces competition. This puts limits on the power of all such groups.

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@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

How can anyone arrive at the conclusion you have when universities educate the masses on many different subjects and skills. When has math, biology and chemistry been controlled by those satanic rich guys? How? When? Where?

I hope the question is sincere because it is a good question all by itself.
One point were all this crap started is the royal society. The Royal Society was formed by hing ranking freemasons, they are satanic.
You also have to see that it is a subtle force, but a strong force nonetheless.
And at this moment it starts when a child enters the educational system where he or she is thourougly indoctrinated, So much indoctrinated when they 'progress' through the education (indoctrination) system,
that when they enter university they have no creativity or potential for rational thinking left. So, then they can be easily spoonfed extremely ridiculous theories like relativity, mathematics, evolution!
and all the other crap!
No room anymore for individual thinking!
They need that, so people can be controlled by their 'thinking' or what is left of it.
Furthermore, the system is used to put people in the left-brain prison where they don't see that they are mulit-dimensional humans with extreme strong mental powers.
If you must control people wouldn;t you do that?

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

My intention was not to endorse the views you have been expressing here.

Institutions of all kinds are controlled and influenced by human beings, with all of their many faults. Happily all such authority is indeed challenged and faces competition. This puts limits on the power of all such groups.

it is ok. what you have to understand is that the people who want to control these things, only have to put people at key-positions,
the rest is irrelevant,

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

agree pretty much in all ranks. BUT, having said that, Im sure your professional licensure requires MINIMUM competence and , with the professional stanards and practices, it has a major role in discipline and punishment . Attaining a license for professions that require them , definitely has a pathway to licensure, and in most cases, it requires a kind of apprenticeship. We may call it "limitation to access" but is there a better way?.

No argument there. We just opened an office in northern California and transferred a cadre of folks there. I'm making them take the California PE & PG exams and they are howling.

farmerman wrote:

If Unis are most hierarchical, it mostly because theres a limited amount of resources being saught after by so many individual diiciplines. The formation of STEM and Interdisciplenary Research centers is a fairly recent thing in HS's an colleges.

I agree, that's an important factor. However, my experience suggests to me that there's a special fondness for it all that appears to be built in to the academic culture. Indeed the proliferation of individual disciplines itself is testimony to that - to paraphrase Charlie Wilson, 'every cock seeks his own dunghill'.

[/quote]

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@georgeob1,

That's why my own tenure was based upon an understanding that I would be part of a team of the "Applied SCiences SChool".
People whose only desire is to hang out in the Uni milieu and get into that environment for life aren't my kinds of folks.
We used to get a lot of mileage with our ADJUNCT teachers, since most of them were entrepreneurial to begin with especially in chemistry (most ALL geology majors have the big desire to be out in the field and left to their own devices )-Ive got more past students in the shale gas industry that, because they followed my direction, if I had a nat gs powered vehicle, Ill bet I wouldn't have to pay to fill up ever again in my life.

These kids (most are in their mid 30's) are all doing well and, unlike the last "boomlet geologists" , these kids have all taken courses in investing , retirement, and wealth management.

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@farmerman,

Quote:

These kids (most are in their mid 30's) are all doing well and, unlike the last "boomlet geologists" , these kids have all taken courses in investing , retirement, and wealth management.

retirement???????
In case you don''t know, retirement will be obsolete very very soon!
But they don't learn that to those kids, do they?!

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@FBM,

That's an excellent set of guidelines for critical thinking.

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Why do people deny evolution?

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