132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
Herald
 
  1  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 10:19 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
I don't know what makes you think that it's possible to synthesize a vaccine or medication in less than an hour.
     ... because FM claimed that the DNA is nothing but 'elementary chain of polymers that can be printed by anyone' (whatever this might mean). It is called inference by analogy. If one knows the substances in the composition of something and all the processes what is the problem to synthesize that something, whatever it might be. The problem is when somebody has gap in the processes and has to fill up that gap continuously not by direct structural and functional synthesis, but by trial and error methods, based on phenomenology and observations on 'probable' impacts and even more unpredictable outcomes. The probability in the experiments and the failures are evidence that key information is missing about the actual processes ... that FM claims to have been acquainted with up to the 18th digit after the decimal point.
When I don't know something I simply say: I don't know. I don't start claiming that these things that I don't know and that I present myself of knowing are aimed at brainwashing our kids. WFM
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 10:28 pm
@Herald,
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the physical process of making vaccines or medications.
Herald
 
  1  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 10:39 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
That has nothing whatsoever to do with the physical process of making vaccines or medications.
     This thread is not about vaccines and medications - it about the justification that people, who are mistrusting the superficial explanations of the evolution and the interpolation of its processes, might have. Notwithstanding that the moderator has exclusively claimed that it is not about the validity of the evolution, the justification cannot be discussed convincingly without solving the problem of the validity.
      Nobody disputes the phenomenology of the evolution, based on the study of the fossils. The problem is that we know too little about that phenomenology from the fossils, which becomes even more little, when all the evidences are attached automatically to 'positive mutations' and forged skulls of 'humans' in the explanation of the human development. I start thinking who is actually brainwashing whom.
FBM
 
  1  
Sun 9 Nov, 2014 10:54 pm
@Herald,
You're the one who made the nonsense statement about producing vaccines and medicines within an hour:

Quote:
If you knew anything about any truth and about any life control processes (body metabolism), hereditary processes (inheritance), and life defense processes (immunology), you would you have been able to synthesize a vaccine and/or medication for any newly emerged virus in less than an hour...
Setanta
 
  2  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 02:00 am
@farmerman,
Certainly none of us can be expert in every field with which scientific theory and hypothesis are supported, or are alleged to be supported. But if one doesn't understand the basic principles which underly an hypothesis, then one won't be able to judge the evidence being presented. I don't know the history of the Romans so thoroughly that i can say yeah or nay to every hypothesis which an historian (or an historical punter) will advance. But i do understand the principles of historiography, and that means i have the tools to judge the underpinning of the hypothesis being offered. I don't suggest that one need possess encyclopedic knowledge. I do suggest that one understand the principles of what is being dicussed enough to come to an informed conclusion. I don't know enough to deny PE, although i find it suspicious. But then, i don't offer an opinion on a subject about which i am not well-enough informed. At a certain point, all of us must defer to those with more specialist knowledge. But all of us have a responsibility to ourselves to know enough to judge.
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 02:16 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Certainly none of us can be expert in every field with which scientific theory and hypothesis are supported, or are alleged to be supported. But if one doesn't understand the basic principles which underly an hypothesis, then one won't be able to judge the evidence being presented. I don't know the history of the Romans so thoroughly that i can say yeah or nay to every hypothesis which an historian (or an historical punter) will advance. But i do understand the principles of historiography, and that means i have the tools to judge the underpinning of the hypothesis being offered. I don't suggest that one need possess encyclopedic knowledge. I do suggest that one understand the principles of what is being dicussed enough to come to an informed conclusion. I don't know enough to deny PE, although i find it suspicious. But then, i don't offer an opinion on a subject about which i am not well-enough informed. At a certain point, all of us must defer to those with more specialist knowledge. But all of us have a responsibility to ourselves to know enough to judge.


we are way, way too dependent on the 'EXPERTS'!
There are literally TONS of material thtah shows that in the past
those so-called EXPERTS where very very very wrong1
So, NEVER try to rely on these suckers! That is what they want us to do!!!

we have to think for ourselves! Now..that would be a revolution!

Builder
 
  -1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:16 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
vaccines?????????

Hmmmmmm, you are not aware that they are highly dangerous and created to destroy the immune system of young children???


This ties in with what I was saying about the corporate coup d'etat of the science journals, and the mass media (and congress, and the SCOTUS).

It used to be laughable to think that our gov't might have hidden agendas to cull the population, but as time goes on, I'm not believing any of their ****.
Quehoniaomath
 
  -1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:26 am
@Builder,
Quote:
This ties in with what I was saying about the corporate coup d'etat of the science journals, and the mass media (and congress, and the SCOTUS).

It used to be laughable to think that our gov't might have hidden agendas to cull the population, but as time goes on, I'm not believing any of their ****.


Very good! The tide IS turning! Thanks!
I have stood by this for years and was ridiculed and still am being ridiculed on a daily basis. Not that I care so much about that, but this is a sign things are changing.(btw there is a deeper reason why people wants to ridicule people like me and others and has to do with control!)

Now, come to see that it is with everything we are fed by the government
The key is that the governments don't work for us, the people , but for the elite!

And about the culling:

Look up Georgia Guidestones! If you haven't done that already.
It is in stone that they want to cull the population!



so, thanks for this posting!! Quite good to read that the work we do, has any merit to some!!!
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:36 am
@Setanta,
Thos "100 points tht "EVolutionites" Fear" is an example of some yutz, who probably has little education and experience in any of the biological or geological sciences and is only interested in the most simple explanations that support his worldview.Then, by creative cherry picking quote mining he cobbled those questions together. There are a few of them that are real bricks in the road of science but not are far enough along that they seem to support evolution (as does every other point with the exception of the three or so "Bible loded comments")
I fear that someone like Herald will disappear up his own ass after a time because hes wildly throwing out stuff that only shows his overall confusion about what evolution even is.

I originally stated that amino acids and protein conjoin in a manner similar to "polymers". Now I am being accused of all sorts of word molestation and the funny thing is that its by some twit who has no idea what hes blabbering abou in the fist place. It almost that one cannot carry on a fact based discussion with it because its mis-understandings of the nuances of English seem to indicate that hes anESL student who hs an agenda

Still, like gunga, Im NOT going to put Herald on ignore. Hes at least entertaining .

Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 03:39 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
Still, like gunga, Im NOT going to put Herald on ignore. Hes at least entertaining .


Entertaining? From reading (Herald) his postings I can see he is much better informed than you, can think more clear then you, has more creativity than you, is more rational then you. and.....uses les Ad Hominems then you!

Face it fm, at this moment your mind is a creation of the government!


please free your mind!


0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 04:02 am
@Herald,
Quote:
when all the evidences are attached automatically to 'positive mutations' and forged skulls of 'humans' in the explanation of the human development. I start thinking who is actually brainwashing whom.
Im not sure what you mean by "positive mutations" since ALL mutations are value neutral (except to the life style of the organism who is having its genes mutated).
As far as the "faked skulls" ALL of the examples of Fakery have been finally solved , just like murder mysteries and it was the hard working cientists who soleved the fakery.

The Creationists have blamed the scientists for Piltdown and Nebrska man and the Pluxey Footprints etc. When, in most cases we should be looking at
"WHO perpetrated these fakes"?
"Why did they do it?"
"Who ws involved in the solution/"

If youd go read about Piltdown Man, youd see that the science of chemical age dating was used by a museum scientist to show that the skull was "married" from two unlike specimens of totally different ages.

Fakes and frauds happen outside the sciences. Today, the art of fakery has had to adopt very high tech means to fool all the gizmos we have that can detect these fakes.
When a Chinese fossil hunter had "glued two unlike fosils together to create a "dawn bird", he did it to make money from an American museum. That same museum took 2 years to uncover th fraud by using an iold fashioned technique . The fake bird had already been toute by the news media as a "Dawn bird" and that was done by a few "science reporters" who , IMHO, were more interested in astory coop than the truth.
When the fossil was discovered to be a fake, these same newspaper reporters, acused the museum of incompetence.

The rel problem ws the "enabler reporters" who saw a story for the "Tuesday SCience Times"

SCience manages , so far at least, to get to the bottom of the stories and the frauds. So much sso that, the NY Museum of NAtural History had "celebrated " the story about the fake dawn bird fossil and had a separate show over 15 years ago when this was a big deal.

If you have any evidence of science trying to run a scam about fossils on us, please bring the story up, don't keep it a secret because that merely affects your credibility and Im sure some funded grad student would love to unmask any fake fossil out there .
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 04:07 am
@farmerman,
I accused a new member here of being the dude who published that "100 points..." blog that gunga had originally posted. He was quite upset at anyone having the temerity to question the truths therein.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 04:08 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

...
Still, like gunga, Im NOT going to put Herald on ignore. Hes at least entertaining .


Likewise. I wouldn't put somebody on Ignore just for posting a lot of ignorant, fallacious crap or for just disagreeing with me. It's only when they keep yelling in all caps and whatnot.
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 04:11 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
so, thanks for this posting!! Quite good to read that the work we do, has any merit to some!!!


The corporate press is giving Vlad Putin's speech a wide berth. He's nailed lots of good points in this speech, regarding the effects of the oligarchy's empirical takeover. Long read, but worth it. He's not afraid to call a spade a spade.

Speech here
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 04:58 am
@Builder,
the important journals are free of corporate control as per the COE of the organizations that sponsor em. There have ALWAYS been "throw away" quasi journals that were published by market houses that specialize in all aspects of science and engineering. They are NOT journals and if that confuses the general public maybe something should be done with a notice on the cover---OH WAIT, they already do this by listing who is in charge on the covers ad the opening pages.

I get a "jounal" called "OMICS", its a marketin magazine about new products and techniques in genomic and genetic research.

Same thing with "LAB SCIENCE" or "DRILLING" and lots more.
You don't want to confuse New England Journal of MEdicine,Science or Nature , GENETICS. or EVOLUTION or GSA JOURNALwith any of those purely marketing magazines.

At the end of ALL rep journals is a "Point/counterpoint" section where authors and colleagues have a dust up about the papers threin. When a paper is considered for publication, colleagues are sent review copies and they let loose with anything they feel is relevant or wrong. This then starts months and months of really spirited argument and often friendships get strained. So fa, Im not aware of any loss of group funding by some company who feels its getting a raw del. After all, if an employee works for uch a company, that employee must get some approvals for the publication in the forst place.
Builder
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 05:12 am
@farmerman,
What do make of this then?


Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 06:13 am
@Builder,
Quote:
The corporate press is giving Vlad Putin's speech a wide berth. He's nailed lots of good points in this speech, regarding the effects of the oligarchy's empirical takeover. Long read, but worth it. He's not afraid to call a spade a spade.


Yes, BUT be very carefull! There is such a thing as controlled opposition!
I think that applies to him!

Don't underestimate how clever the elite is at manipulating.
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 06:19 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
the important journals are free of corporate control


Of course not! They are ALL controlled.
By different means.
A lot of people at keypostitions (editing, accepting etc) are Freemasons or Jesuiets, or member of other secret societies like the Rosecrucians or the Knight of Malta and so on and so forth

But I understand that as long as you believe they are free, you BELIEVE what is written in them! But it is all PROPAGANDA!!!
And what fields? All of them! physics, mathematics, biology ( the evolution shite!), psychology (Watson & Skinner worked for the elite, important psychotherapists worked for the elite!!), geology, and the ******* rest of it.

As I said before, the Royal Society started all this crap to keep us away
from sensitive areas, Science has nothing to with truth, but with CONTROL

Once you see and understand that is is easy to dismiss a lot of the crap that is sold to us under the flag of 'science'.

And really, you can see it here as well, most scientist really can't think because they are indoctrinated to deep into the 'system'.
And a lot are still very depend on it! ( a la la matrix).like fm I gues.Wink
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 07:08 am
@Builder,
Im not sure what the"This is" of which you refer? What is your belief about drug research?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Mon 10 Nov, 2014 07:20 am
Sagan's baloney (bullshit) detection kit: http://www.brainpickings.org/2014/01/03/baloney-detection-kit-carl-sagan/

Quote:
Through their training, scientists are equipped with what Sagan calls a “baloney detection kit” — a set of cognitive tools and techniques that fortify the mind against penetration by falsehoods:
...
Wherever possible there must be independent confirmation of the “facts.”
Encourage substantive debate on the evidence by knowledgeable proponents of all points of view.

Arguments from authority carry little weight — “authorities” have made mistakes in the past. They will do so again in the future. Perhaps a better way to say it is that in science there are no authorities; at most, there are experts.

Spin more than one hypothesis. If there’s something to be explained, think of all the different ways in which it could be explained. Then think of tests by which you might systematically disprove each of the alternatives. What survives, the hypothesis that resists disproof in this Darwinian selection among “multiple working hypotheses,” has a much better chance of being the right answer than if you had simply run with the first idea that caught your fancy.

Try not to get overly attached to a hypothesis just because it’s yours. It’s only a way station in the pursuit of knowledge. Ask yourself why you like the idea. Compare it fairly with the alternatives. See if you can find reasons for rejecting it. If you don’t, others will.

Quantify. If whatever it is you’re explaining has some measure, some numerical quantity attached to it, you’ll be much better able to discriminate among competing hypotheses. What is vague and qualitative is open to many explanations. Of course there are truths to be sought in the many qualitative issues we are obliged to confront, but finding them is more challenging.

If there’s a chain of argument, every link in the chain must work (including the premise) — not just most of them.

Occam’s Razor. This convenient rule-of-thumb urges us when faced with two hypotheses that explain the data equally well to choose the simpler.

Always ask whether the hypothesis can be, at least in principle, falsified. Propositions that are untestable, unfalsifiable are not worth much. Consider the grand idea that our Universe and everything in it is just an elementary particle — an electron, say — in a much bigger Cosmos. But if we can never acquire information from outside our Universe, is not the idea incapable of disproof? You must be able to check assertions out. Inveterate skeptics must be given the chance to follow your reasoning, to duplicate your experiments and see if they get the same result.


 

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