132
   

Why do people deny evolution?

 
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 06:55 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
I have provided the syubstance, it is called "The Lunar Society"
That you can't accept it is a completely different story.


If you call that substance you must be in a particularly delicate state of mind.

The real hoax is using evolution to undermine Christian sexual morality whilst pretending to justify it in the name of Science.

You must be aware of which special interest groups are lined up on each side. And as the setting aside of Christian sexual morality is so very, very tempting it is obvious how formidable the promoters of evolution are when massed around a trough. And it is easy to see the magnitude of the gains they have made.

Last night a lady conducted a serious discussion about the tragedy unfolding in Iraq with half her tits on display and her skirt half way up her thighs. Further up when she uncrossed her shapely legs, on the ends of which were attractive high-heel shoes, and again when she re-crossed them the other way. That sort of shameless, brazen display was confined to peep-shows on the pier when I was a lad and just beginning to understand the trials and tribulations ahead.

The hoax is that non of the evolutionists dare go anywhere near the main principles of evolution either in their own lives or in discussions.

Science is like the trap door in an illusionist's box when he is sawing the lady in half for such half-baked evolutionists. Evolution as a physical process taking place in time is incomprehensible in actuality. Pretending it can be simplified is the hoax.

Quote:
e.q take 'modern physics' NOTHING, and I mean litterally NOTHING usefull has come out of it


As I have explained, that's a bet. Only Destiny can be the judge. I presume from that you would support the persecution of Galileo, assuming it wasn't faked. All our resident evolutionists know it wasn't faked. How they know is a mystery to me. Maybe they need it that way to help undermine the Church and its wicked ways.

I agree though that science has spun our heads off our shoulders but only because some "scientists" have found making a name for themselves more important than practicing their science.

Churchill said scientists were "on tap" and not "on top". And they don't like that sort of thing. No sir!!!
parados
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 06:58 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:

I have provided the syubstance, it is called "The Lunar Society"

There is no such thing as the lunar society because there is no such thing as the moon.


http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm
The Moon does not exist!

This is no lie. Until recently, I, too, believed in the traditional, establishment view of the moon. But any thinking person, untainted by the biases imposed on us by the controlled media, will have no choice but to reach the conclusion I did once faced with the facts described in this account.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 07:08 am
@parados,
parados wrote:

Quote:

I have provided the syubstance, it is called "The Lunar Society"

There is no such thing as the lunar society because there is no such thing as the moon.


http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm
The Moon does not exist!

This is no lie. Until recently, I, too, believed in the traditional, establishment view of the moon. But any thinking person, untainted by the biases imposed on us by the controlled media, will have no choice but to reach the conclusion I did once faced with the facts described in this account.



Wink
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 08:50 am
@parados,
Quote:
There is no such thing as the lunar society because there is no such thing as the moon.


http://www.revisionism.nl/Moon/The-Mad-Revisionist.htm
The Moon does not exist!

This is no lie. Until recently, I, too, believed in the traditional, establishment view of the moon. But any thinking person, untainted by the biases imposed on us by the controlled media, will have no choice but to reach the conclusion I did once faced with the facts described in this account.


That is one way of dealing with this sort of information....going mad! LOL

Really looks you have gone over the edge.



man o man.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 09:01 am
@spendius,
Quote:
The real hoax is using evolution to undermine Christian sexual morality whilst pretending to justify it in the name of Science.

well, that is bollocks of course, but well if you see it that way than evolution is a hoax in your eyes too.
It is bollocks of course because the whole Christianity thing is fake as well.

As I said before, Christianity is nothing more than a recycled pagan belief.

don't believe me? Read this:
http://frontierworld.nl/webshops/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/WSCS.jpg


Have fun reading it, but it will destroy any thought you still have on christianity! So, I don';t think you are going too.



Anyway, here you go..

Quote:
What most Christians don't realize is that a great many of the elements of the story of Jesus Christ as related in the New Testament gospels are not unique in the recorded history of man. In fact, there have been at least fifteen demigods, saviors, or avatars that preceded Jesus in various times, places, and cultures -- including some that predate the Christian era by millennia! In 1875, Kersey Graves wrote a ground breaking treatise that told of these other miraculous and immaculately conceived personages, that stars pointed out the time and birthplace of the various saviors; the 25th of December is a common birthday attributed to these men; the 346 striking analogies between Jesus and Krishna; the stories of Appollonius, Osiris, and Magus; previous virgin mothers and virgin-born gods; prophecies by the figure of a serpent; the Holy Ghost of an oriental origin; Christ as a spiritual medium; the rival claims of saviors; and messianic prophecies. This photomechanical reprint of a true and seminal classic is now made available for a whole new generation of readers. The World's Sixteen Crucified Saviors is very highly recommended reading for students of Christianity in general, and the anthropological/sociological role of the redeemer figure in the cultural and religious histories of the world.


http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Sixteen-Crucified-Saviours-Christianity/dp/093281395X
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 09:02 am
@spendius,
Quote:

You must be aware of which special interest groups are lined up on each side.

This is quite correct and that side of the line that understands and uses evolution as an applied science, do so, merely for profit.

The only profit available on the other side is subscription services and donations.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 09:13 am
@spendius,
here is another one you may 'love'



Quote:
http://www.debunkingskeptics.com/images/debunkingchristianscover.bmp

(..)
This is his major treatise and book addressing andrefuting every standard argument made by Christian Fundamentalists, Apologists and Evangelists, point-by-point from every angle. Uses solid arguments, reasoning and logic, with scholarly citations and quotations. Also contains shocking facts about the Bible and its evolution that most Christians don't know.

A devout Bible thumper in his youth, Mr. Wu was a born again Christian who tried to win souls for Christ and defended the faith with the standard Apologist arguments of Christian writers such as Josh McDowell and C.S. Lewis.

But after a long slow deconversion and awakening, Mr. Wu began researching into the background and history of Christianity and Christian theology and found out that there were many discrepancies, fallacies and damaging evidence against the tenets of his religion which he thought was infallible. After realizing that the extreme Christian fundamentalist view that he held had no real foundation after all, he realized that he had been brainwashed and so began a long search for truth and answers.

Eventually, with knowledge came power, courage and confidence to overcome the brainwashing and fear mongering that had been instilled in him by this religious faith.

This book is a compilation of what Mr. Wu discovered and unearthed in his search for the truth about the controlling Christian religion.

It is not written to change the mind of the Bible believer - who is not open to changing it anyway - but for believers who have doubts and for ex-fundamentalists who have already turned away and are wondering if they made the right choice or not. For them, this book will shed a lot of light on all the doctrines they've been taught and show them the big picture of where it all came from.

Here are some praises from readers of this treatise:

“I work at a public library and thus have access to hundreds of books on religion and spirituality, yet very, very few are as helpful as the one article that you have written. There is even a book titled "Leaving the fold" that is for former fundamentalists leaving their religion, yet your article is arguably better and more useful then the entire book.”
- Ian

“Congratulations on an excellent site. Your information on evangelical fundamentalist Christianity is the BEST site on the internet. It spells everything out. Try to get the search engines to bring it up near the top of searches.”
- Kevin

“I discovered this website while doing some research into Christian Fundamentalism and Atheistic Dogma. I was blown away by how well the arguments against Christianity were, specifically because they lacked emotion fueled "Logic".”


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0041T5AFQ?ie=UTF8&tag=religion-spirituality-20&linkCode=xm2&creativeASIN=B0041T5AFQ



But I already know, you are not going to study this!

And that is ok, I respect your choice.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 09:35 am
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:

That is one way of dealing with this sort of information....going mad! LOL

Really looks you have gone over the edge.



man o man.

Mad? Have you bothered to look at the math on that site? It proves that the moon can't exist.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:24 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
Disbelieve as we may the details of the accounts which
record the growth of the Christian religion, yet a great part of
Christian teaching will remain as true as though we accepted the
details.


Samuel Butler. The Way Of All Flesh. Chapter 19.

Yes--a great part of Christian teaching will remain true whatever is said about the details. And only an uneducated person would think the true part can be discredited with the minor details.

And it is that true part, Christian sexual morality, which you are here to try to shaft.

Because a burning bush doesn't speak does not mean libertinage is hunky-dory. And only an ill-bred philistine would think otherwise and every time he uses such an illogical argument he shows us what an ill bred philistine he is and how far he will stoop to try to prove that infractions of the Christian moral code are not an error.

How can Dawkins even contemplate his serial adultery with equanimity unless he uses such a low trick to convince himself.

Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:28 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Yes--a great part of Christian teaching will remain true whatever is said about the details. And only an uneducated person would think the true part can be discredited with the minor details.


what nonsense, Christianity is fake, all of it, even the 'details'
you have been brainwashed into this, sory to say.
So it is very difficult for you to being critical towards fake christianity.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:33 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
This is quite correct and that side of the line that understands and uses evolution as an applied science, do so, merely for profit.


Like all the adulterers, homosexuals, divorcees, perverts, abortionists and consumers of artificial birth control mechanical and chemical operations plus all the suppliers and facilitators of these conveniences.

And their arguments apply to bank robbing and fraud equally well. both of which are not only sanctioned by evolutionary thinking but mandatory.

Quote:
The only profit available on the other side is subscription services and donations.


That is a lie. There has been miraculous profit in living an orderly life in line with Christian sexual morality. So much so that any other profit is derived from it and small potatoes by the side of it.
spendius
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:43 pm
@Quehoniaomath,
Quote:
Christianity is fake, all of it,


If you are going to keep that up Q there is not a lot of point in discussing the matter with you.

What other cultural process would you have in its place? And if you convince everyone that Christianity is fake you are going to have to provide one. You can't have nothing. Peoples don't organise around nothing.
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:44 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Like all the adulterers, homosexuals, divorcees, perverts, abortionists and consumers of artificial birth control mechanical and chemical operations plus all the suppliers and facilitators of these conveniences.


What, in your eyes, is then wrong with these people?
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:47 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
If you are going to keep that up Q there is not a lot of point in discussing the matter with you.

What other cultural process would you have in its place? And if you convince everyone that Christianity is fake you are going to have to provide one. You can't have nothing. Peoples don't organise around nothing.


Do what you have to do. I don't care. And yes, Christianity IS FAKE.
What other process bla bla bla doesn''t say a thing at all of course.
I have given books for you to read that will and can show about a shadow of a doubt, that it is really fake. jesus never ever existed at all. It is also a fairy tale.
That you don't want to accept that is ok with me. I guess you are to deep
into this nonsense and it really seems you can't think straight about this at all!
And again, that is ok with me.
Your choice.
I don't imagine for a moment I , or others for that matter, can change you mind about that.
So be it.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 12:56 pm
Quote:
Quehon said to me: your point about atheist being liars is completely wrong! I know more lyers who are catholic than atheist..

True Christians LURV the truth, so they don't lie, not ever!
So if somebody tells fibs it means they're not true Christians, gettit?..Wink

PS- what lies were your catholic school trying to feed you?
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 01:01 pm
Quote:
Quehon posted:
http://frontierworld.nl/webshops/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/WSCS.jpg

Well they must have been 16 krap crucified saviours to have let themselves be completely upstaged by a young dood from a bunch of mud huts called Nazareth..Smile
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 01:07 pm
Quote:
Quehon said about Mr. Wu:
Mr. Wu began researching into the background and history of Christianity..and found out that there were many discrepancies, fallacies and damaging evidence.

He should have stuck to cleaning windows..Smile



farmerman
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 01:08 pm
@spendius,
DARWINS own introductory sections that showed up only after Edition II was in the press. His nascent atheism is shown in his positions regarding all those he acknowledged as preceeing him (even the ones he got dead wrong, like Aristotle.

ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF OPINION ON THE ORIGIN OF SPECIES...

Quote:





I will here give a brief sketch of the progress of opinion on the Origin of Species. Until recently the great majority of naturalists believed that species were immutable productions, and had been separately created. This view has been ably maintained by many authors. Some few naturalists, on the other hand, have believed that species undergo modification, and that the existing forms of life are the descendants by true generation of pre-existing forms. Passing over allusions to the subject in the classical writers,(1) the first author who in modern times has treated it in a scientific spirit was Buffon. But as his opinions fluctuated greatly at different periods, and as he does not enter on the causes or means of the transformation of species, I need not here enter on details.

Lamarck was the first man whose conclusions on the subject excited much attention. This justly-celebrated naturalist first published his views in 1801; he much enlarged them in 1809 in his "Philosophie Zoologique,' and subsequently, in 1815, in the Introduction to his "Hist. Nat. des Animaux sans Vertébres.' In these works he upholds the doctrine that species, including man, are descended from other species. He first did the eminent service of arousing attention to the probability of all change in the organic, as well as in the inorganic world, being the result of law, and not of miraculous interposition. Lamarck seems to have been chiefly led to his conclusion on the gradual change of species, by the difficulty of distinguishing species and varieties, by the almost perfect gradation of forms in certain groups, and by the analogy of domestic productions. With respect to the means of modification, he attributed something to the direct action of the physical conditions of life, something to the crossing of already existing forms, and much to use and disuse, that is, to the effects of habit. To this latter agency he seemed to attribute all the beautiful adaptations in nature; -- such as the long neck of the giraffe for browsing on the branches of trees. But he likewise believed in a law of progressive development; and as all the forms of life thus tend to progress, in order to account for the existence at the present day of simple productions, he maintains that such forms are now spontaneously generated.(2)

Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, as is stated in his 'Life,' written by his son, suspected, as early as 1795, that what we call species are various degenerations of the same type. It was not until 1828 that he published his conviction that the same forms have not been perpetuated since the origin of all things. Geoffroy seems to have relied chiefly on the conditions of life, or the 'monde ambiant' as the cause of change. He was cautious in drawing conclusions, and did not believe that existing species are now undergoing modification; and, as his son adds, "C'est donc un problème à réserver entièrement à l'avenir, supposé meme que l'avenir doive avoir prise sur lui.'

In 1813, Dr W. C. Wells read before the Royal Society 'An Account of a White female, part of whose skin resembled that of a Negro'; but his paper was not published until his famous 'Two Essays upon Dew and Single Vision' appeared in 1818. In this paper he distinctly recognises the principle of natural selection, and this is the first recognition which has been indicated; but he applies it only to the races of man, and to certain characters alone. After remarking that negroes and mulattoes enjoy an immunity from certain tropical diseases, he observes, firstly, that all animals tend to vary in some degree, and, secondly, that agriculturists improve their domesticated animals by selection; and then, he adds, but what is done in this latter case 'by art, seems to be done with equal efficacy, though more slowly, by nature, in the formation of varieties of mankind, fitted for the country which they inhabit. Of the accidental varieties of man, which would occur among the first few and scattered inhabitants of the middle regions of Africa, some one would be better fitted than the others to bear the diseases of the country. This race would consequently multiply, while the others would decrease; not only from their inability to sustain the attacks of disease, but from their incapacity of contending with their more vigorous neighbours. The colour of this vigorous race I take for granted, from what has been already said, would be dark. But the same disposition to form varieties still existing, a darker and a darker race would in the course of time occur: and as the darkest would be the best fitted for the climate, this would at length become the most prevalent; if not the only race, in the particular country in which it had originated.' He then extends these same views to the white inhabitants of colder climates. I am indebted to Mr Rowley, of the United States, for having called my attention, through Mr Brace, to the above passage in Dr Wells' work.

The Hon. and Rev. W. Herbert, afterwards Dean of Manchester, in the fourth volume of the 'Horticultural Transactions,' 1822, and in his work on the 'Amaryllidaceae' (1837, pp. 19, 339), declares that 'horticultural experiments have established, beyond the possibility of refutation, that botanical species are only a higher and more permanent class of varieties.' He extends the same view to animals. The Dean believes that single species of each genus were created in an originally highly plastic condition, and that these have produced, chiefly by intercrossing, but likewise by variation, all our existing species.

In 1826 Professor Grant, in the concluding paragraph in his well-known paper ('Edinburgh philosophical journal,' vol. xiv. p. 283) on the Spongilla, clearly declares his belief that species are descended from other species, and that they become improved in the course of modification. This same view was given in his 55th Lecture, published in the 'Lancet' in 1834.

In 1831 Mr Patrick Matthew published his work on 'Naval Timber and Arboriculture,' in which he gives precisely the same view on the origin of species as that (presently to be alluded to) propounded by Mr Wallace and myself in the 'Linnean journal,' and as that enlarged in the present volume. Unfortunately the view was given by Mr Matthew very briefly in scattered passages in an Appendix to a work on a different subject, so that it remained unnoticed until Mr Matthew himself drew attention to it in the 'Gardener's Chronicle,' on April 7th, 1860. The differences of Mr Matthew's view from mine are not of much importance; he seems to consider that the world was nearly depopulated at successive periods, and then re-stocked; and he gives as an alternative, that new forms may be generated ' without the presence of any mould or germ of former aggregates.' I am not sure that I understand some passages; but it seems that he attributes much influence to the direct action of the conditions of life. He clearly saw, however, the full force of the principle of natural selection.

The celebrated geologist and naturalist, Von Buch, in his excellent 'Description physique des Isles Canaries' (1836, p. 147), clearly expresses his belief that varieties slowly become changed into permanent species, which are no longer capable of intercrossing.

Rafinesque, in his 'New Flora of North America,' published in 1836, wrote (p. 6) as follows:- 'All species might have been varieties once, and many varieties are gradually becoming species by assuming constant and peculiar characters'; but farther on (p. 18) he adds, 'except the original types or ancestors of the genus.'

In 1843-44 Professor Haldeman ('Boston journal of Nat. Hist. U. States, vol. iv. p. 468) has ably given the arguments for and against the hypothesis of the development and modification of species: he seems to lean towards the side of change.

The 'Vestiges of Creation' appeared in 1844. In the tenth and much improved edition (1853) the anonymous author says (p. 155):- 'The proposition determined on after much consideration is, that the several series of animated beings, from the simplest and oldest up to the highest and most recent, are, under the providence of God, the results, first, of an impulse which has been imparted to the forms of life, advancing them, in definite times, by generation, through grades of organisation terminating in the highest dicotyledons- and vertebrata, these grades being few in number, and generally marked by intervals of organic character, which we find to be a practical difficulty in ascertaining affinities; second, of another impulse connected with the vital forces, tending, in the course of generations, to modify organic structures in accordance with external circumstances, as food, the nature of the habitat, and the meteoric agencies, these being the ''adaptations'' of the natural theologian.' The author apparently believes that organisation progresses by sudden leaps, but that the effects produced by the conditions of life are gradual. He argues with much force on general grounds that species are not immutable productions. But I cannot see how the two supposed 'impulses' account in a scientific sense for the numerous and beautiful co-adaptations which we see throughout nature; I cannot see that we thus gain any insight how, for instance, a woodpecker has become adapted to its peculiar habits of Life. The work, from its powerful and brilliant style, though displaying in the earlier editions little accurate knowledge and a great want of scientific caution, immediately had a very wide circulation. In my opinion it has done excellent service in this country in calling attention to the subject, in removing prejudice, and in thus preparing the ground for the reception of analogous views.

In 1846 the veteran geologist N. J. d'Omalius d'Halloy published in an excellent though short paper ("Bulletins de l'Acad. Roy Bruxelles,' tom. xiii. p. 581) his opinion that it is more probable that new species have been produced by descent with modification than that they have been separately created: the author first promulgated this opinion in 1831.

Professor Owen, in 1849 ('Nature of Limbs,' p. 86), wrote as follows:- "The archetypal idea was manifested in the flesh under diverse such modifications, upon this planet, long prior to the existence of those animal species that actually exemplify it. To what natural laws or secondary causes the orderly succession and progression of such organic phenomena may have been committed, we, as yet, are ignorant.' In his Address to the British Association, in 1858, he speaks (p. li.) of "the axiom of the continuous operation of creative power, or of the ordained becoming of living things.' Farther on (p. xc.), after referring to geographical distribution, he adds, 'These phenomena shake our confidence in the conclusion that the Apteryx of New Zealand and the Red Grouse of England were distinct creations in and for those islands respectively. Always, also, it may be well to bear in mind that by the word ''creation'' the zoologist means '"a process he knows not what.'' He amplifies this idea by adding that when such cases as that of the Red Grouse are enumerated by the zoologists as evidence of distinct creation of the bird in and for such islands, he chiefly expresses that he knows not how the Red Grouse came to be there, and there exclusively; signifying also, by this mode of expressing such ignorance, his belief that both the bird and the islands owed their origin to a great first Creative Cause.' If we interpret these sentences given in the same Address, one by the other, it appears that this eminent philosopher felt in 1858 his confidence shaken that the Apteryx and the Red Grouse first appeared in their respective homes, 'he knew not how,' or by some process 'he knew not what.'

This Address was delivered after the papers by Mr Wallace and myself on the Origin of Species, presently to be referred to, had been read before the Linnean Society. When the first edition of this work was published, I was so completely deceived, as were many others, by such expressions as 'the continuous operation of creative power,' that I included Professor Owen with other palaeontologists as being firmly convinced of the immutability of species; but it appears ('Anat. of Vertebrates,' vol. iii. p. 796) that this was on my part a preposterous error. In the last edition of this work I inferred, and the inference still seems to me perfectly just, from a passage beginning with the words 'no doubt the type-form,' &c. (Ibid. vol. i. p. xxxv.), that Professor Owen admitted that natural selection may have done something in the formation of a new species; but this it appears (Ibid. vol. nl. p. 798) is inaccurate and without evidence. I also gave some extracts from a correspondence between Professor Owen and the Editor of the 'London Review,' from which it appeared manifest to the Editor as well as to myself, that Professor Owen claimed to have promulgated the theory of natural selection before I had done so; and I expressed my surprise and satisfaction at this announcement; but as far as it is possible to understand certain recently published passages (Ibid. vol. iii. p. 798) I have either partially or wholly again fallen into error. It is consolatory to me that others find Professor Owen's controversial writings as difficult to understand and to reconcile with each other, as I do. As far as the mere enunciation of the principle of natural selection is concerned, it is quite immaterial whether or not Professor Owen preceded me, for both of us, as shown in this historical sketch, were long ago preceded by Dr Wells and Mr Matthews.

M. Isidore Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire, in his lectures delivered in 1850 (of which a Résumé appeared in the 'Revue et Nag. de Zoolog.,' Jan. 1851), briefly gives his reason for believing that specific characters "sont fixés, pour chaque espèce, tant qu'elle se perpétue au milieu des mèmes circonstances: ils se modifient, si les circonstances ambiantes viennent à changer.' 'En résumé, l'observation des animaux sauvages démontre déjà la variabilité limité des espèces. Les expériences sur les animaux sauvages devenus domestiques, et sur les animaux domestiques redevenus sauvages, la démontrent plus clairement encore. Ces memes expériences prouvent, de plus, que les différences produites peuvent etre de valeur générique.' In his 'Hist. Nat. Généralé (tom. ii. p. 430, 1859) he amplifies analogous conclusions.

From a circular lately issued it appears that Dr Freke, in 1851 ("Dublin Medical Press,' p. 322), propounded the doctrine that all organic beings have descended from one primordial form. His grounds of belief and treatment of the subject are wholly different from mine; but as Dr Freke has now (1861) published his Essay on the 'Origin of Species by means of Organic Affinity,' the difficult attempt to give any idea of his views would be superfluous on my part.

Mr Herbert Spencer, in an Essay (originally published in the 'Leader,' March, 1852, and republished in his 'Essays,' in 1858), has contrasted the theories of the Creation and the Development of organic beings with remarkable skill and force. He argues from the analogy of domestic productions, from the changes which the embryos of many species undergo, from the difficulty of distinguishing species and varieties, and from the principle of general gradation, that species have been modified; and he attributes the modification to the change of circumstances. The author (1855) has also treated psychology on the principle of the necessary acquirement of each mental power and capacity by gradation.

In 1852 M. Naudin, a distinguished botanist, expressly stated, in an admirable paper on the Origin of Species ('Revue Horticole, p. 102; since partly republished in the 'Nouvelles Archives du Muséum,' tom. i. p. 171), his belief that species are formed in an analogous manner as varieties are under cultivation; and the latter process he attributes to man's power of selection. But he does not show how selection acts under nature. He believes, like Dean Herbert, that species, when nascent, were more plastic than at present. He lays weight on what he calls the principle of finality, 'puissance mystérieuse, indéterminée; fatalité pour les uns; pour les autres volonté providentielle, dont l'action incessante sur les ètres vivants détermine, à toutes les époques de l'existence du monde, la forme, le volume, et la durée de chacun d'eux, en raison de sa destinée dans l'ordre de choses dont il fait partie. C'est cette puissance qui harmonise chaque membre à l'ensemble, en l'appropriant à la fonction qu'il doit remplir dans l'organisme général de la nature, fonction qui est pour lui sa raison d'ètre.'(3)

In 1853 a celebrated geologist, Count Keyserling ("Bulletin de la Soc. Gèolog.,' 2nd Ser., tom. x. p. 357), suggested that as new diseases, supposed to have been caused by some miasma, have arisen and spread over the world, so at certain periods the germs of existing species may have been chemically affected by circumambient molecules of a particular nature, and thus have given rise to new forms.

In this same year, 1853, Dr Schaaffhausen published an excellent pamphlet ('Verhand. des Naturhist. Vereins der preuss. Rheinlands,' &c.), in which he maintains the development of organic forms on the earth. He infers that many species have kept true for long periods, whereas a few have become modified. The distinction of species he explains by the destruction of intermediate graduated forms. 'Thus living plants and animals are not separated from the extinct by new creations, but are to be regarded as their descendants through continued reproduction.'

A well-known French botanist, M. Lecoq, writes in 1854 ('Etudes sur Géograph. Bot.,' tom. i. p. 250), 'On voit que nos recherches sur la fixité ou la variation de l'espèce, nous conduisent directement aux idées émises, par deux hommes justement célèbres, Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire et Goethe.' Some other passages scattered through M. Lecoq's large work, make it a little doubtful how far he extends his views on the modification of species.

The 'Philosophy of Creation' has been treated in a masterly manner by the Rev. Baden Powell, in his "Essays on the Unity of Worlds,' 1855. Nothing can be more striking than the manner in which he shows that the introduction of new species is "a regular, not a casual phenomenon,' or, as Sir John Herschel expresses it, 'a natural in contradistinction to a miraculous, process.'

The third volume of the "Journal of the Linnean Society' contains papers, read July 1st, 1858, by Mr Wallace and myself, in which, as stated in the introductory remarks to this volume, the theory of Natural Selection is promulgated by Mr Wallace with admirable force and clearness.

Von Baer, towards whom all zoologists feel so profound a respect, expressed about the year 1859 (see Prof. Rudolph Wagner, a "Zoologisch-Anthropologische Untersuchungen,' 1861, s. 51) his conviction, chiefly grounded on the laws of geographical distribution, that forms now perfectly distinct have descended from a single parent-form.

In June, 1859, Professor Huxley gave a lecture before the Royal Institution on the 'Persistent Types of Animal Life.' Referring to such cases, he remarks, "It is difficult to comprehend the meaning of such facts as these, if we suppose that each species of animal and plant, or each great type of organisation, was formed and placed upon the surface of the globe at long intervals by a distinct act of creative power; and it is well to recollect that such an assumption is as unsupported by tradition or revelation as it is opposed to the general analogy of nature. If, on the other hand, we view 'Persistent Types' in relation to that hypothesis which supposes the species living at any time to be the result of the gradual modification of pre-existing species a hypothesis which, though unproven, and sadly damaged by some of its supporters, is yet the only one to which physiology lends any countenance; their existence would seem to show that the amount of modification which living beings have undergone during geological time is but very small in relation to the whole series of changes which they have suffered.'

In December, 1859, Dr Hooker published his 'Introduction to the Australian Flora.' In the first part of this great work he admits the truth of the descent and modification of species, and supports this doctrine by many original observations.

The first edition of this work was published on November 24th, 1859, and the second edition on January 7th, 1860.

Footnotes

(1) Aristotle, in his 'Physicae Auscultationes' (lib. 2, cap. 8, s. 2), after remarking that rain does not fall in order to make the corn grow, any more than it falls to spoil the farmer's corn when threshed out of doors, applies the same argument to organization: and adds (as translated by Mr Clair Grece, who first pointed out the passage to me), 'So what hinders the different parts [of the body] from having this merely accidental relation in nature? as the teeth, for example, grow by necessity, the front ones sharp, adapted for dividing, and the grinders flat, and serviceable for masticating the food; since they were not made for the sake of this, but it was the result of accident. And in like manner as to the other parts in which there appears to exist an adaptation to an end. Wheresoever, therefore, all things together (that is all the parts of one whole) happened like as if they were made for the sake of something, these were preserved, having been appropriately constituted by an internal spontaneity, and whatsoever things were not thus constituted, perished, and still perish. We here see the principle of natural selection shadowed forth, but how little Aristotle fully comprehended the principle, is shown by his remarks on the formation of the teeth.

(2) I have taken the date of the first publication of Lamarck from Isid. Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire's ('Hist. Nat. Générale,' tom. ii. p. 405, 1859) excellent history of opinion on this subject. In this work a full account is given of Buffon's conclusions on the same subject. It is curious how largely my grandfather, Dr Erasmus Darwin, anticipated the views and erroneous grounds of opinion of Lamarck in his 'Zoonomia' (vol. i. pp. 500-510), published in 1794. According to Isid. Geoffroy there is no doubt that Goethe was an extreme partisan of similar views, as shown in the Introduction to a work written in 1794 and 1795, but not published till long afterwards: he has pointedly remarked ('Goethe als Naturforscher,' von Dr Karl Medinge s. 34) that the future question for naturalists will be how, for instance, cattle got their horns, and not for what they are used. It is rather a singular instance of the manner in which similar views arise at about the same time, that Goethe in Germany, Dr Darwin in England, and Geoffroy Saint-Hilaire (as we shall immediately see) in France; came to the same conclusion on the origin of species, in the years 1794-5.

(3) From references in Bronn's 'Untersuchungen über die Entwickenlungs-Gesetze,' it appears that the celebrated botanist and palaeontologist Unger published, in 1852, his belief that species undergo development and modification. Dalton, likewise, in Pander and Dalton's work on Fossil Sloths, expressed, in 1821 a similar belief. Similar views have, as is well known, been maintained by Oken in his mystical 'Natur-philosophie.' From other references in Godron's work 'Sur l'Espéce,' it seems that Bory St Vincent, Burdach, Poiret, and Fries, have all admitted that new species are continually being produced.

I may add, that of the thirty-four authors named in this Historical Sketch, who believe in the modification of species, or at least disbelieve in separate acts of creation, twenty-seven have written on special branches of natural history or geology
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 01:09 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
True Christians LURV the truth, so they don't lie, not ever!
So if somebody tells fibs it means they're not true Christians, gettit?..

PS- what lies were your catholic school trying to feed you?


you are getting all over the place when it comes to christianity.
If you don't like something you just say, 'well they are not christians'

You can use that 'argument' on the fly.

So, first define what a christian IS before we can continue.


they lied to me about the existence of a man called jesus and so much more,
0 Replies
 
Quehoniaomath
 
  1  
Sat 21 Jun, 2014 01:09 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
He should have stuck to cleaning windows


That is no argument and you know it.
0 Replies
 
 

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