9
   

ax'd, clargy, a fat bit... What do these mean?

 
 
Reply Sun 15 Dec, 2013 11:18 pm

Context:

The boys they came crowding in fast;
They drew their stools close round about him,
Six glims[8] round his trap-case[9] were placed
For he couldn't be well waked without 'em,
When ax'd if he was fit to die,
Without having duly repented?
Says Larry, 'That's all in my eye,
And all by the clargy invented,
– To make a fat bit for themselves.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Before_Larry_Was_Stretched#cite_ref-10
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Type: Question • Score: 9 • Views: 2,661 • Replies: 25

 
View best answer, chosen by oristarA
oralloy
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 01:43 am

I would guess:

ax'd = asked

clargy = clergy

a fat bit = a nice profit
MontereyJack
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 02:05 am
Thought it sounded old, with a lot of really old slang. Seems to have been written in Newgate prison slang from around the early part of the 19th century. Elvis Costello may have recorded it, but he didn't write it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Before_Larry_Was_Stretched
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 03:32 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:


I would guess:

ax'd = asked

clargy = clergy

a fat bit = a nice profit


So "And all by the clargy invented,– To make a fat bit for themselves" means " and all are invented by the clergies to make a nice profit for themselves( the clergies themselves)"?
Then what is this "all" referring to?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 03:40 am
@oristarA,
1) bekase - because?
2) the Hokey?
3) the rason?
4) sason?
5)wit me daddle - waste my leisure time?

Some more:

Then the cards being called for, they play’d,
Till Larry found one of them cheated;
A dart[14] at his napper[11] he made
The lad being easily heated,
‘So ye chates me bekase I’m in grief!
O! is that, by the Hokey, the rason?
Soon I’ll give you to know you d—d thief!
That you’re cracking your jokes out of sason,
– And scuttle your nob with my fist’.

(Alternative fifth verse) Then the cards being called for, they play’d,
Till Larry found one of them cheated;
A dart[14] at his napper[11] he made
The lad being easily heated,
Ohoh!, be the hokey ya thief!
I'll scuttle yer knob wit me daddle
You chates me bekase I'm in grief
But soon I'll demolish yer noddle
– And lave ya yer claret[15] to drink’.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 03:46 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
So "And all by the clargy invented,– To make a fat bit for themselves" means "and all are invented by the clergies to make a nice profit for themselves( the clergies themselves)"?

I believe so.

The sentence isn't arranged normally, probably so the words "repented" and "invented" can end their respective lines.


oristarA wrote:
Then what is this "all" referring to?

Probably the entire concept of religion, or at least organized religion.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 04:44 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
1) bekase - because?

I think so.


oristarA wrote:
2) the Hokey?

"By the Hokey" sounds like either minor swearing, or something designed to give the impression of minor swearing.


oristarA wrote:
3) the rason?

Based on the context:

"is that ... the rason?"

....I would guess "reason".



oristarA wrote:
4) sason?

Based on the context:

"cracking your jokes out of sason"

....I would guess "out of season".


"Out of season" probably originated from hunting and fishing, where a sportsman is only allowed to take certain game during certain seasons. Taking game "out of season" counts as poaching.

In this case, the term probably means that he was cracking jokes inappropriately.

Although since it really was referring to someone cheating at cards, maybe it was referring to that cheating as the inappropriate behavior.

It is somewhat a leap of logic to use "cracking an inappropriate joke" as a way of referring to "cheating at cards". But the source material seems to be taking some liberties with the English language, so maybe such a leap of logic could be expected.



oristarA wrote:
5)wit me daddle - waste my leisure time?

"I'll scuttle yer knob wit me daddle"

"Scuttle yer knob" likely means strike him in the head (knob likely meaning a hard bony part of the head).

"Wit me daddle" would be "with my daddle".

I assumed that "daddle" was slang for some type of simple weapon, but I note the other version of the verse has the line:

"And scuttle your nob with my fist"

So perhaps "daddle" is slang for fist.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 04:51 am
@oristarA,
'Ax'd', asked. 'Clargy', the clergy, basically vicars. 'A fat bit', means a substantial amount of money.

So Larry doesn't bother repenting because he thinks God and Heaven and Hell are all made up by priests just so they can make money.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 04:54 am
@oralloy,
Daddle is hand, or fist.

Gi' us yer daddle, or Tip us yer daddle, means to shake hands.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 05:01 am
@oristarA,
You cheated me, bekase(because) I'm a condemned man. (Dead men have no use for money.)

Hokey probably a rhyming term for prison. I've heard it called Pokey before, and some people still call the song Hokey Cokey, Hokey Pokey.

Rason reason.

Sason, season, which means time. It's not appropriate to cheat a condemned man.

Daddle can mean a hand/fist.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 05:41 am
@oristarA,
Thank you guys.
Here's last ones:
1)divil - temple?
2)hemp - wine?
3) musha - an obscene term for Holy Mary?
4) nubbing-cheat -?
5)jugg’d off - moved ruggedly from?
6)tack’d up - tackled up?

VI
Then the clergy came in with his book
He spoke him so smooth and so civil;
Larry tipp’d him a Kilmainham[16] look,[17]
And pitch’d his big wig to the divil.
Then raising a little his head,
To get a sweet drop of the bottle,
And pitiful sighing he said,
‘O! the hemp will be soon round my throttle,[18]
– And choke my poor windpipe to death!’

VII
So mournful these last words he spoke,
We all vented our tears in a shower;
For my part, I thought my heart broke
To see him cut down like a flower!
On his travels we watch’d him next day,
O, the throttler[19] I thought I could kill him!
But Larry not one word did say,
Nor chang’d till he came to King William;[20]
– Then, musha, his colour turned white.

VIII
When he came to the nubbing-cheat,
He was tack’d up so neat and so pretty;
The rambler[21] jugg’d off from his feet,
And he died with his face to the city.
He kick’d too, but that was all pride,
For soon you might see ’twas all over;
And as soon as the noose was untied,
Then at darkey[22] we waked him in clover,
– And sent him to take a ground-sweat.[23]
Setanta
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 06:07 am
You're dealing with the canting slang of criminals, which although not universal in the British islands, is pretty wide-spread--however, you're otherwise dealing with the Irish. Divil means the Devil. Musha is an Irish intensifier, and i believe it comes from the Erse (Irish Gaelic) for "listen"--don't quote me on that. Hemp refers to the rope with which he will be hanged. The nubbing cheat means the gallows. I suspect the other terms come from criminal cant, too, but i'm not familiar with them.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 06:11 am
By the way, "the Kilmainham look" is your tip-off that this is being spoken by an Irishman. Kilmainham Gaol was long the main prison in Ireland, and for a long time, the only prison in the city of Dublin. Apart from that, saying clargy rather than clergy and divil rather than devil are dead give-aways, that's how an Irish speaker of English often would pronounce those words.
0 Replies
 
timur
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 06:30 am
Talking about daddle, I don't think it's the word that should fit in the text.

First, it doesn't appear in the wiki version:

Wiki wrote:
Soon I’ll give you to know you d—d thief!
That you’re cracking your jokes out of sason,
– And scuttle your nob with my fist’.


Second, some people see it as a swear word:

Quote:
Soon I’ll give you to know you damn thief!
That you’re cracking your jokes out of sason,
And scuttle your nob with my fist’.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 07:33 am
@timur,
Quote:
Full Definition of DADDLE
dial Brit

: hand, fist


http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/daddle
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 09:10 am

Who is the divil? The clergy?
Quote:
And pitch’d his big wig to the divil.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 09:15 am
@oristarA,
Divil is the Devil




Him......

http://dogknobit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DI18-8215_RED_DEVIL_HALF_BODY.JPG.jpg
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 09:58 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

Divil is the Devil
Him......

http://dogknobit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/DI18-8215_RED_DEVIL_HALF_BODY.JPG.jpg


You have not answered my question at all. Setanta has said what you said here.

Who the devil refers to there? The clergy? Because the condemned thief thinks all religions are made for the benefit of themselves.
izzythepush
 
  3  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 10:42 am
@oristarA,
He's telling the clergyman to go to the Devil, or go to Hell, which is what we'd say today.
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 16 Dec, 2013 10:47 am
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:
Who the devil refers to there? The clergy? Because the condemned thief thinks all religions are made for the benefit of themselves.


"Then the clergy came in with his book
He spoke him so smooth and so civil;
Larry tipp’d him a Kilmainham[16] look,[17]
And pitch’d his big wig to the divil."


In the past, the upper class in England all wore fancy wigs, leading to the term "big wig" to refer to an important person.

I'm only guessing here, but I presume the clergyman came in wearing such a wig, and the protagonist knocked it off his head and sent it flying.

Probably should verify this with one of the posters from the UK though. This is all written in a UK dialect and they will understand the nuances better than I can.
 

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