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GW Bush-Mistakes?

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:00 am
McGentrix wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Brian, I am former military as well (Iraq the first time around and Somolia), and I disagree vehemently with the ilegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So do many others on this board who have sevrved in conflicts from WWII-onward. Rather than jumping in and displaying evidence of simplistic reasoning, peruse the threads for a while, then repond in a civil manner, okay? Thanks.



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Oh, my! Hobitbob lecturing someone on civility! LOL!!!

Mcgentrix, tell us again about your military days...oops, I forgot again, you were not qualified to participate in such a simple rite of passage, or fulfill a basic duty of citizenship. Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
saintsfanbrian
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:00 am
hobitbob wrote:
Brian, I am former military as well (Iraq the first time around and Somolia), and I disagree vehemently with the ilegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So do many others on this board who have sevrved in conflicts from WWII-onward. Rather than jumping in and displaying evidence of simplistic reasoning, peruse the threads for a while, then repond in a civil manner, okay? Thanks.


Please point out my simplistic reasoning. The invasion of Iraq was not illegal as the president went to congress and got approval. And can you point out where I was not civil while you are at it?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:01 am
hobitbob wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Brian, I am former military as well (Iraq the first time around and Somolia), and I disagree vehemently with the ilegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So do many others on this board who have sevrved in conflicts from WWII-onward. Rather than jumping in and displaying evidence of simplistic reasoning, peruse the threads for a while, then repond in a civil manner, okay? Thanks.



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Oh, my! Hobitbob lecturing someone on civility! LOL!!!

Mcgentrix, tell us again about your military days...oops, I forgot again, you were not qualified to participate in such a simple rite of passage, or fulfill a basic duty of citizenship. Twisted Evil


Another fine example of Hobitbob's civility! I think your just jealous...
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:02 am
saintsfanbrian wrote:


Please point out my simplistic reasoning.

Linking AQ with Hussein.

Quote:
The invasion of Iraq was not illegal as the president went to congress and got approval.

If I recall correctly, the approval was tied to the presence of WMD, which apparently did not exist.

Quote:
And can you point out where I was not civil while you are at it?

This is what I meant:

Quote:
It is thanks to those men and women (and several thousand before them) that you have the right to get on an internet chatroom anonymously and spout your drivel.

Not a great way to start.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:05 am
McGentrix wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
McGentrix wrote:
hobitbob wrote:
Brian, I am former military as well (Iraq the first time around and Somolia), and I disagree vehemently with the ilegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So do many others on this board who have sevrved in conflicts from WWII-onward. Rather than jumping in and displaying evidence of simplistic reasoning, peruse the threads for a while, then repond in a civil manner, okay? Thanks.



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Oh, my! Hobitbob lecturing someone on civility! LOL!!!

Mcgentrix, tell us again about your military days...oops, I forgot again, you were not qualified to participate in such a simple rite of passage, or fulfill a basic duty of citizenship. Twisted Evil


Another fine example of Hobitbob's civility! I think your just jealous...

Really? What is there to be jealous of? I don't idolize the military like you seem to, but then again, I actually served, and did so successfully. I will always have some fond memories of my military days to look back on. The camaraderie, the shared experiences, etc... Tell us again how being a dependent taught you everything there was to know about being a soldier.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:09 am
You never did mention WHY you served. was it an alternative to jail time? Couldn't afford college so thought you would take advantage of teh GI bill? Couldn't get into college and your adoptive parents kicked you out of the house so you joined the military? The mind reels why someone with such hate for americans and American ideals such as yourself would ever want to join the military.
0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:13 am
hobitbob wrote:
Brian, I am former military as well (Iraq the first time around and Somolia), and I disagree vehemently with the ilegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. So do many others on this board who have sevrved in conflicts from WWII-onward. Rather than jumping in and displaying evidence of simplistic reasoning, peruse the threads for a while, then repond in a civil manner, okay? Thanks.


First of all, thank you for your service hobitbob. Secondly, you have been there, so you know from whence you speak. People like McG are either incapable of 'getting it', don't want to 'get it' or are too old an stubborn to 'get over' their incorrect thinking.

The war in Iraq IS an illegal war founded on misinformation and outright lies. Iraq IS NOT A WAR AGAINST TERROR PEOPLE!!!! (end of rant).

I hope someday, Bush and his henchmen will be brought up on war crimes, as they should be.
0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:15 am
McGentrix wrote:
You never did mention WHY you served. was it an alternative to jail time? Couldn't afford college so thought you would take advantage of teh GI bill? Couldn't get into college and your adoptive parents kicked you out of the house so you joined the military? The mind reels why someone with such hate for americans and American ideals such as yourself would ever want to join the military.


McG...do you have any idea how pathetic that statement is?
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:19 am
Right...and only Neil armstrong and a few others are qualified to talk about the moon, right? Look up Argumentum ad verecundiam and try again.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 11:23 am
McGentrix wrote:
You never did mention WHY you served. was it an alternative to jail time? Couldn't afford college so thought you would take advantage of teh GI bill? Couldn't get into college and your adoptive parents kicked you out of the house so you joined the military? The mind reels why someone with such hate for americans and American ideals such as yourself would ever want to join the military.

I joined the Army for several reasons. I had just finished a degeree in molecular bio, and did not know what I wanted to do. I didn't want to go to med school, I was tired of school in general, and rather than get a mundane job and be miserable, I spoke with the military. I was already an EMT-P, and the Army guaranteed I would be allowed to go in as a levell II medic (91B20Y1). They also paid back my student loans, as well as offering me an enlistment bonus for "special skills (The paragod cert)," as well as the GI bill that I could use for grad school if I wished. In addition, it was a way to get out of the US for a while and basically, to do what most of us wish to do when we are 22: party, travel, and play with loud expensive toys all on someone else's dime. Very Happy
Certain aspects of my time in the militaryw ere enjoyable, but I saw more stupidity and corruption than could be made up for by the positives. On the other hand, I made some of the best friendships I have ever had, and learned a great deal about both human nature, and how to function in a beaurocracy than I might have had I not entered the military. I also collected some nifty coloured ribbons and sparkly medals that are sitting in a box in the basement.
0 Replies
 
sparky
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 01:35 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
They might as well have asked him, so President Bush, when did you stop beating your wife?


Okay, I got here late, as usual. I would have loved to have seen someone ask GW this question. Laughing Liven things up a bit. How long would he have 'ummed' that one?
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 01:40 pm
From Today's RMN
Littwin: Bush - and supporters - at a loss for words

April 15, 2004

The president seemed caught by surprise - that's the nicest possible interpretation - even after the fourth version of the question at his news conference the other night.

If nothing else, Mr. Bush should have appreciated the reporters adopting his own style of argument - which is to repeat a theme, repeatedly.


If you listened, you heard the questions:

Wasn't he ever wrong?

And, if so, why couldn't he ever admit it?

I'm not sure all the questions at George W. Bush's prime-time news conference were particularly cogent. If there were repeated inquiries about Iraq, I'd like to have heard them addressing the problems with the present plan and how to fix it. Maybe an hour wasn't long enough.

But ever since Dick Clarke apologized for 9-11, that seems to be the only question worth asking: Don't you have something - anything - to apologize for, too?

For 9-11? For Iraq? Certainly someone should apologize for John Ashcroft.

There were two themes at this rare presidential news conference. The reporters kept to the apology line. Bush, meanwhile, argued for an hour that, despite the bad news from Iraq, everything was basically on track.

(He even tried to breathe new life into the old search for, yes, weapons of mass destruction. In discussing the difficulty of the search, he noted Libya hid mustard gas at a turkey farm. This, I'm guessing, is bad news for the Iraqi poultry industry.)

The post-conference reviews suggested Bush was either resolute or rigid. With Bush, his public speaking reviews always depend on whether you agree with him (he's terrible if you disagree; adequate if you agree.) In this case, though, even some pundit allies proved skittish and not just about the presidential, uh, syntax. There was Bill Kristol saying that Bush hadn't made his case. There was David Gergen saying much the same.

The reviews were nearly as bad as Bush's Meet the Press notices. I think we all know why the president is insisting on bringing Dick Cheney along with him to the 9-11 commission. Let's just say it's not for Cheney's smile.

Resolute or rigid, the president was definitely defiant. And in the Bush style, he made his case - what you might call a frills-free case. And then he made his case again.

Saddam was dangerous.

We are changing the world.

We must stay the course.

Followed by:

Saddam was dangerous.

We are changing the world.

We must stay the course.

Of course, saying it's so doesn't make it so. But saying it often does assure - for a president whose political future is suddenly at risk - that it's heard.

But also heard - again and again - was Bush stumbling over one version or another

of the doesn't-the-buck-stop-anywhere-near-

your-desk question.

Personally, I don't think it's fair to suggest Bush should have connected fly-into-buildings dots before 9-11. But it is fair to ask, particularly in a campaign where security is the principal issue, whether Bush was quick enough to understand the terror threat. That's what discussion of the Aug. 6 memo is all about.

And then there's the situation in Iraq. And the horrible photos to illustrate it.

In Bush's worst moment of the evening, he was asked what his biggest mistake has been since 9-11. That's presumably for the commissions to come.

Bush stumbled. He stuttered. He reminded me, for you film buffs, of Albert Brooks in Broadcast News.

He said he couldn't think of one mistake, but explained he was under pressure:

"You know, I hope I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have. I just haven't - you put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not quick, as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one."

The obvious Democratic response is to sponsor contests to see who can come up with the most Bush miscues. Maybe the winner can be John Kerry's vice presidential pick.

But this was not simply gotcha journalism. The issue is whether Bush, no fan of nuance, ever second-guesses his actions.

He says he would have attacked Iraq even if he knew there had been no weapons of mass destruction. Now you understand the situation. And you wonder about Bush's willingness to change course.

Many critics, from left and right, believe there aren't enough troops to do the job in Iraq.

Many critics, from left and right, wonder how you can plan to hand over sovereignty to a nation on June 30 when there's no one yet on the receiving end.

Many critics, particularly from the left, believe Bush continuously understates the nature of the insurgency. This is the Vietnam syndrome you keep hearing about.

Many critics, particularly John Kerry, insist that Bush admit that the present coalition is hardly internationalizing Iraq.

There are hard questions here. Presidential apologies - which everyone knows the Kerry campaign would dine on for months - won't help. Better answers, though, might.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:11 pm
Deleted by author
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:12 pm
I see McGentrix is up to his pathetic and very tiresome profiling of another member based on his closed, claustrophobic view of the world.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:15 pm
His mamma told him I was the devil! Wink
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:22 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
I see McGentrix is up to his pathetic and very tiresome profiling of another member based on his closed, claustrophobic view of the world.


What's that old adage? Pot calling the kettle black?

How wonderfully prolific of you.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 02:25 pm
Prolific? Laughing
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 08:21 pm
Another example of mister integrity fukking it up once again.
Bush... stupid or retarded, you decide!
Quote:
White House: Bush Erred on Mustard Gas

WASHINGTON (AP) - Once again, President Bush misspoke on a weapons issue, telling the nation that 50 tons of mustard gas were found in Libya - twice the amount actually uncovered.

The White House moved quickly Wednesday to correct the record, with press secretary Scott McClellan seeking out reporters to point out the mistake. The president should have said in his Tuesday night address and press conference that 23.6 tons of mustard gas were found in Libya, instead of 50 tons, McClellan said.



Bush used the 50-ton figure twice.

The first time, he was making the case that his decision to go to war in Iraq has produced foreign policy successes elsewhere. The president argued that Libya's agreement last December to dismantle its weapons of mass destruction programs was the result of the U.S.-led war to topple Iraqi President Saddam Hussein.

``Colonel Gadhafi made the decision, and rightly so, to disclose and disarm for the good of the world,'' Bush said, referring to Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi. ``By the way, they found, I think, 50 tons of mustard gas, I believe it was, in a turkey farm, only because he was willing to disclose where the mustard gas was. But that made the world safer.''

The second time, Bush was using the example of the Libyan mustard gas disclosure to suggest that weapons of mass destruction could still turn up in Iraq. Though Bush's prewar allegations of Saddam's alleged weapons were his main rationale for going to war, none has yet been found.

``They could still be there,'' Bush said Tuesday of the Iraq weapons. ``They could be hidden, like the 50 tons of mustard gas in a turkey farm.''

The White House's fast acknowledgement of this error was sharply different from its handling of Bush's now-discredited claim in his January 2003 State of the Union address that Iraq had sought uranium from Africa for weapons.

It wasn't until July 2003 that the White House said the statement, largely based on evidence of Iraqi activities in Niger that turned out to be forged and that had been doubted beforehand by some in the intelligence community, should not have been included in the speech.

0 Replies
 
doglover
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 09:33 pm
hobitbob wrote:
Bush... stupid or retarded, you decide!


Neither. He's incompetent.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Thu 15 Apr, 2004 10:39 pm
So that would be...both stupid and retarded!
0 Replies
 
 

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