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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 12:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
I guess there have to be people like in every Internet forum...and on behalf of the group, I thank you for being ours.
     No, no F., nothing can outperform you ... on any forum.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 12:52 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
How do you think the rate of expansion applies to the 3 laws of thermodynamics?
     Do you know the rate of expansion - as a number - or you are going to develop great doctorate in philosophy?
parados wrote:
Now you are just deflecting more and not answering the question of which law is violated.
     I told you and if you knew the laws of physics, as you claim, you should not have had any problems with that.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:00 pm
@Herald,
No, you didn't tell us which of the 3 laws is violated.

Now, when you can tell me how you think the rate of expansion applies to the 3 laws of thermodynamics I will be happy to give you number. Until then, keep up your deflections.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:10 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
I guess there have to be people like in every Internet forum...and on behalf of the group, I thank you for being ours.
     No, no F., nothing can outperform you ... on any forum.


What I actually said was:

Quote:
Ahhh...you were wrong...so rather than acknowledge that you were wrong...you change what you "meant."

I guess there have to be people like in every Internet forum...and on behalf of the group, I thank you for being ours.


I acknowledge when I am wrong...which obviously is something you have lots of trouble doing.

There are people like that in every Internet forum...and you ARE ours.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:19 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Nothing manic or denialist about it
     It is denialist because it denies a priori the existence of God, and it is absolutely manic because it is set as a pre-condition for becoming 'a member of the Club'.
FBM wrote:
You came here attacking science without taking the time to logically analyze your own position first.
     I am not attacking the science, for your fake theory has nothing to do with any science. What would you say about your 'logical' position - how much is the rate of expansion of the Universe ... as a number?
FBM wrote:
Had you done so with intellectual honesty, you would see that you have nothing more substantial than blind faith at the foundation of your god hypothesis.
     1. The hypothesis of God is not mine - it is 12 500 years old.
     2. What about your honesty - can't you simply say "I don't have the vaguest idea of how much the rate of expansion (if exists) of the Universe might be". It is not that difficult - just say it ... or as an alternative name the number.
FBM wrote:
If you've got something better than the scientific approach, bring it. Still waiting.
 What 'scientific' approach you are talking about? Your fake theory is light years away from any reasonably justified approach, let alone scientific. It is an ugly cartoon of science in any understanding of the world ... and if you are curious to know the lack of assumptions for the God hypothesis is the very same lack of assumptions for the Big Bang hypothesis - this is one and the same question and lack of assumptions, and you are trying to make me answering the questions that you are supposed to answer as well (instead of generating spam references).
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:26 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:
1. The hypothesis of God is not mine - it is 12 500 years old.


Hey, if you are going to use absurd nonsense like that, Herald, you ought really to make it something like, "it is 12,368 years old."

No one is going to be impressed with a fraudulent, made up number like 12,500 years old...but something like 12,368 years old will sit them up in their seats.

Herald
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:27 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
Now, when you can tell me how you think the rate of expansion applies to the 3 laws of thermodynamics.
     Where have I said that? This is a straw-man, that is your personal top design. The inability to point out the number of the rate of expansion proves irretrievably that you don't have any idea of what the correlation between the red shift and your imaginary expansion of the universe might be? Without correlation you cannot even claim that the expansion is really existing, and is not only on paper.
     As about the laws of thermodynamics go back in the thread and see what the answer is - but if one does not know them, he would hardly recognize the answer - as in your case, for example.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Hey, if you are going to use absurd nonsense like that
     The legend of Osiris dates back to 24th century BCE - and He is not the first God. So you have at least 45 centuries for sure (4500 years).
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:40 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Hey, if you are going to use absurd nonsense like that
     The legend of Osiris dates back to 24th century BCE - and He is not the first God. So you have at least 45 centuries for sure (4500 years).


Earth calling Herald...Earth calling Herald. Come in please.

Question if I may:

Do you see any difference between 4500 years...and 12,500 years?

If anyone can help Herald with the math here, it would be most welcome.
parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 01:41 pm
@Herald,
You said it here:
http://able2know.org/topic/226001-195#post-5834466
Quote:
especially in connection with a theory that is denying the laws of thermodynamics.

The theory you refer to is red shift which shows the universe to be expanding. Denying the laws of thermodynamics would mean the theory of an expanding universe must violate at least one of the 3 laws of thermodynamics.

I didn't create a straw man. I am asking you about a specific statement you made.

Let me ask you the simple question again.
Which of the 3 laws of thermodynamics is the red shift violating?

If you answered it then please post a link to your answer. I have bothered to go back and read every post you made since the one quoted above. In none of them did you tell us which one of the laws was violated.

You posted a link to the laws but that isn't telling us which one you think is violated. Rather it was an attempt at obfuscation on your part by pretending I didn't know the laws.
http://able2know.org/topic/226001-196#post-5834831

All laws are perfectly fine with an expanding universe. It doesn't violate any of them. 1. There is no energy being created. 2. Entropy is occurring. 3. Entropy approaches a constant near absolute zero.

Now, let me ask one more time. Which one do you think is being violated and how?
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 07:56 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:
     It is denialist because it denies a priori the existence of God, and it is absolutely manic because it is set as a pre-condition for becoming 'a member of the Club'.


You're wandering into conspiracy theorizing now. Got yer tinfoil hat on?

Atheists are not a unified group. Only some use the term to deny the existence of something for which there is no evidence (since you and your kind haven't produced any). I'm content with saying that, while I don't know for 100% certainty whether or not there is a god or gods, the argument you bring is pathetically weak and mortally fallacious compared to that for the naturalistic explanation. If you want to be convincing, simply make a stronger case. Bring some evidence and reasoning roughly equivalent to that for the naturalistic case. Bring it. Something. Anything credible.

Quote:
 What 'scientific' approach you are talking about? Your fake theory is light years away from any reasonably justified approach, let alone scientific. ...


That's my coffee-spray moment of the day. I suppose your invisible magic man in the sky is more scientific? Laughing Woo-hoo!!
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 08:04 pm
http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/content/19/1/2

Quote:
Denialism: what is it and how should scientists respond?
Pascal Diethelm, Martin McKee
DOI: http://dx.doi.org/10.1093/eurpub/ckn139 2-4 First published online: 21 January 2009


Black is white and white is black
HIV does not cause AIDS. The world was created in 4004 BCE. Smoking does not cause cancer. And if climate change is happening, it is nothing to do with man-made CO2 emissions. Few, if any, of the readers of this journal will believe any of these statements. Yet each can be found easily in the mass media.

The consequences of policies based on views such as these can be fatal...The rejection of scientific evidence is also apparent in the popularity of creationism, with an estimated 45% of Americans in 2004 believing that God created man in his present form within the past 10 000 years.2 While successive judgements of the US Supreme Court have rejected the teaching of creationism as science, many American schools are cautious about discussing evolution. In the United Kingdom, some faith-based schools teach evolution and creationism as equally valid ‘faith positions’. It remains unclear how they explain the emergence of antibiotic resistance...
...
The Hoofnagle brothers, a lawyer and a physiologist from the United States, who have done much to develop the concept of denialism, have defined it as the employment of rhetorical arguments to give the appearance of legitimate debate where there is none, an approach that has the ultimate goal of rejecting a proposition on which a scientific consensus exists.
...


Emphasis added.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 08:09 pm
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/denial_by_hip63-d4rbzmq.png
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Dec, 2014 09:44 pm
I was reading through these. I think our god-botherers have unwittingly exposed themselves as having many/most of these misconceptions: http://undsci.berkeley.edu/teaching/misconceptions.php

Quote:
Misconceptions about science
Many students have misconceptions about what science is and how it works. This section explains and corrects some of the most common misconceptions that students are likely have trouble with. If you are interested in common misconceptions about teaching the nature and process of science, visit our page on that topic.

Misinterpretations of the scientific process
...
Misunderstandings of the limits of science
...
Misleading stereotypes of scientists
...
Vocabulary mix-ups
Fact
Law
Observation
Hypothesis
Theory
Falsifiable
Uncertainty
Error
Prediction
Belief/believe


Each misconception or other error is linked to a correction. I like this one in particular:

Quote:
MISCONCEPTION: Science is complete.

CORRECTION: Since much of what is taught in introductory science courses is knowledge that was constructed in the 19th and 20th centuries, it's easy to think that science is finished — that we've already discovered most of what there is to know about the natural world. This is far from accurate. Science is an ongoing process, and there is much more yet to learn about the world. In fact, in science, making a key discovery often leads to many new questions ripe for investigation. Furthermore, scientists are constantly elaborating, refining, and revising established scientific ideas based on new evidence and perspectives. To learn more about this, visit our page describing how scientific ideas lead to ongoing research.
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2014 05:12 am
@FBM,
Some really laughabale cop outs these are!!!

LOL

Now, some real arguments , please , instead of these Ad Hominims.



And, now we are at it, how about the evidence....???





0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2014 02:11 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Each misconception or other error is linked to a correction.
     Obviously the idea of all these references and quotes is to prove that you are a mega-genius of seventh star magnitude ... and in the capacity of being so can you formulate your personal assumptions of the Big Bang 'theory', without any references to any texts, of any kind, whatsoever?
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2014 02:15 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Only some use the term to deny the existence of something for which there is no evidence
     We are not talking about evidence yet. Just answer the question: is the denial of theism and God and ID of any form a precondition to become a member of the Club ... of the atheists?
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2014 02:19 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
There are people like that in every Internet forum...and you ARE ours.
     I have a question: isn't the boldface enough to express your deep and profound thoughts that you have to use also capitals in the middle of the sentence?
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2014 02:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Do you see any difference between 4500 years...and 12,500 years?
     The Shumerian God Anu dates back to 4500 BC as a minimum (that is 6600 years up to now) and the legend is that Anu is a grand-ancestor of the Visitor - the sky God the legend about whom goes back most probably to 10th millennium BC ... that has never been proved, actually.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Dec, 2014 02:46 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
There are people like that in every Internet forum...and you ARE ours.
     I have a question: isn't the boldface enough to express your deep and profound thoughts that you have to use also capitals in the middle of the sentence?


Nope...I need the caps in the middle.

Does that bother you also?
0 Replies
 
 

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