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Intelligent Design vs. Casino Universe

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 07:47 pm
@parados,
Herald seems to make a lot of claims without any support. Why do you waste your time reading his bull shyt? Just a thought.
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 09:21 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
If you want to completely misrepresent the observations then how can we be expected to take you seriously?
     From where are you so sure that it is not you the one who is misinterpreting the observations ... and how can you be so sure that the light that is coming to you is the primary source, without any interference?
parados wrote:
Red shift is based on how two objects are moving related to each other.
     ... and by the very same light (with the red shift in the spectrum) you are measuring the distances in the Universe.
parados wrote:
It has nothing to do with where a center is.
     If you claim that the Universe is expanding equally in all directions it must have a center of expansion, and this relative movement represented by the red shift should provide data to model the way the object is expanding (if at all).
     Actually this relative movement is pure hypothesis and nothing else - you don't even have lab experiments and field studies conforming that the expansion really exists. If you succeed to measure for example some drop in the frequency of the beam in an optical cable without transmitter this will prove automatically that nothing in the Universe is expanding.
parados wrote:
Why don't you get out a tape measure and tell us what the real distance is.
      ... and why don't you confess that your distance is hypothetical and you have no other verification and validation methods to check it except for RFs & light.
parados wrote:
Your only argument seems to be you don't know what the distance is so therefor no one else can figure it out. Your argument is idiotic.
     My argument is that when somebody claims that the Universe is expanding with acceleration and can tell neither how much that rate of expansion and acceleration actually are there must be something totally wrong with the whole construct.
parados wrote:
Which law is it defying? Tell us in detail.
     If you don't know the laws of thermodynamics, why should I fill the gaps in your knowledge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics
     Perhaps you may go through the material personally and apply the laws one-to-one towards the point of emergence of the Big Bang - the act of creation of the Universe, as your favorite theory claims.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 09:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
The use of bold face does not tell you anything...let alone make something obvious.
     The use of boldface perhaps yes, but the misuse may tell out very much. Do you want some interpretations:
     The person writing continuously in boldface may not know what is the purpose of use of the boldface fonts in principle.
     Boldface usually is used to express emphasis - exaggeration of words in a text with a font in a different style from the rest of the text, to emphasize them. It is used in titles and items as well.
     When the whole text is in boldface the person is not emphasizing anything in the text, but rather is trying to exaggerate the personal paragraphs and to assign to them some competitive advantage (that they actually don't have as semantics) in terms of the other texts (written from the other people) on the blog - but this is just a personal perception of the things - it is not the real situation.
     If you are curious to get knowing what the real situation is, why don't you make a thread:
'Guys, what do you think about my boldface on the blogs' in order to see the truth in the face in its full glory.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:14 pm
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:26 pm
@FBM,
God said, "abba cadabra" and we were created. LOL
FBM
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2014 10:38 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's pretty much the hypothesis. In this day and age, in this society. Whew. It boggles the mind.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 07:15 am
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
The use of bold face does not tell you anything...let alone make something obvious.
     The use of boldface perhaps yes,


...


So why did you say it did?



Quote:
...but the misuse may tell out very much. Do you want some interpretations:
     The person writing continuously in boldface may not know what is the purpose of use of the boldface fonts in principle.
     Boldface usually is used to express emphasis - exaggeration of words in a text with a font in a different style from the rest of the text, to emphasize them. It is used in titles and items as well.
     When the whole text is in boldface the person is not emphasizing anything in the text, but rather is trying to exaggerate the personal paragraphs and to assign to them some competitive advantage (that they actually don't have as semantics) in terms of the other texts (written from the other people) on the blog - but this is just a personal perception of the things - it is not the real situation.
     If you are curious to get knowing what the real situation is, why don't you make a thread:
'Guys, what do you think about my boldface on the blogs' in order to see the truth in the face in its full glory.


There is no misuse. I have assured everyone that I am not using it to yell...or to "emphasize." I will now assure you that I am not using it to "gain any competitive advantage." So...get over it.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 08:22 am
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb192/DinahFyre/1532152_833850550007643_7415280894116928151_n.png

([sic] "phenomenon.") Or "goddidit." Each are equally plausible. Rolling Eyes
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 08:30 am
@FBM,
lot's wrong with that one!
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 08:50 am
@Herald,
I am perfectly aware of the laws of thermodynamics. Now tell us which one you think the universe is violating.

You simply make statements without any evidence. Then when questioned you can't back up your claims.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 08:55 am
Quote:
9. The Second Law of Thermodynamics says that systems must become more disordered over time. Living cells therefore could not have evolved from inanimate chemicals, and multicellular life could not have evolved from protozoa.
This argument derives from a misunderstanding of the Second Law. If it were valid, mineral crystals and snowflakes would also be impossible, because they, too, are complex structures that form spontaneously from disordered parts.

The Second Law actually states that the total entropy of a closed system (one that no energy or matter leaves or enters) cannot decrease. Entropy is a physical concept often casually described as disorder, but it differs significantly from the conversational use of the word.

More important, however, the Second Law permits parts of a system to decrease in entropy as long as other parts experience an offsetting increase. Thus, our planet as a whole can grow more complex because the sun pours heat and light onto it, and the greater entropy associated with the sun's nuclear fusion more than rebalances the scales. Simple organisms can fuel their rise toward complexity by consuming other forms of life and nonliving materials.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/15-answers-to-creationist/

Another dead end. Derp.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 01:35 pm
@FBM,
FBM wrote:
Another dead end. Derp.
     How much is the present day energy of the Universe - all of it, without any exception, in all of its forms and diversities? How much is the rate of expansion of the Universe ... as a number with the corresponding dimension, pls.?
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 01:39 pm
@parados,
parados wrote:
I am perfectly aware of the laws of thermodynamics.
     I doubt that. How much is the energy of the present day Universe - light emissions, temperature, black holes, mass of the matter, dark matter, dark energy - how much? Would you suggest some plausible number.
Herald
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 01:44 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
There is no misuse.
     There is, and even how.
Frank Apisa wrote:
I have assured everyone that I am not using it to yell...or to "emphasize." I will now assure you that I am not using it to "gain any competitive advantage." So...get over it.
     Then remains the case of mental inability to switch it off, and that is called how?
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 04:11 pm
@Herald,
Which law of thermodynamics require there be a specific number?

I notice you still have NOT told us which of the laws you think is being violated. Instead you just deflect by asking for something that has nothing to do with the laws.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 04:13 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
There is no misuse.
     There is, and even how.
Frank Apisa wrote:
I have assured everyone that I am not using it to yell...or to "emphasize." I will now assure you that I am not using it to "gain any competitive advantage." So...get over it.
     Then remains the case of mental inability to switch it off, and that is called how?


Sorry, Herald...but, respectfully as possible, you are wrong.

I am not yelling...I am not emphasizing.

I have my reasons for using bold...some of which I have already shared.

If you want to think I am yelling or emphasizing...there is nothing I can do to stop you. But if you read what I am writing, you will see that it normally is calm, reasoned, and rational...unlike some of the stuff that gets posted without the bold texture.

There really is no mistaking it...you have to effort to think about it as erroneously as you are.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 07:34 pm
@Herald,
Herald wrote:

FBM wrote:
Another dead end. Derp.
     How much is the present day energy of the Universe - all of it, without any exception, in all of its forms and diversities? How much is the rate of expansion of the Universe ... as a number with the corresponding dimension, pls.?


Tell me just one observable detail about your god and I'll go quid pro quo with you on facts from science. One-for-one, tit-for-tat. I've already posted a large number of facts from science, so you're up. Give me one single observable fact about your god. One.
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2014 07:35 pm
This was pretty interesting, particularly the bit at the end that I bolded: http://bigthink.com/ideafeed/mit-physicist-proposes-new-meaning-of-life


Quote:
MIT Physicist Proposes New "Meaning of Life"

by ORION JONES


MIT physicist Jeremy England claims that life may not be so mysterious after all, despite the fact it is apparently derived from non-living matter. In a new paper, England explains how simple physical laws make complex life more likely than not. In other words, it would be more surprising to find no life in the universe than a buzzing place like planet Earth.

What does all matter—rocks, plants, animals, and humans—have in common? We all absorb and dissipate energy. While a rock absorbs a small amount of energy before releasing what it doesn't use back into the universe, life takes in more energy and releases less. This makes life better at redistributing energy, and the process of converting and dissipating energy is simply a fundamental characteristic of the universe.

According to England, the second law of thermodynamics gives life its meaning. The law states that entropy, i.e. decay, will continuously increase. Imagine a hot cup of coffee sitting at room temperature. Eventually, the cup of coffee will reach room temperature and stay there: its energy will have dissipated. Now imagine molecules swimming in a warm primordial ocean. England claims that matter will slowly but inevitably reorganize itself into forms that better dissipate the warm oceanic energy.

The strength of England's theory is that it provides an underlying physical basis for Darwin's theory of evolution and helps explain some evolutionary tendencies that evolution cannot. Adaptations that don't clearly benefit a species in terms of survivability can be explained thusly: "the reason that an organism shows characteristic X rather than Y may not be because X is more fit than Y, but because physical constraints make it easier for X to evolve than for Y to evolve."
Quehoniaomath
 
  0  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2014 12:57 am
@FBM,
Quote:
MIT Physicist Proposes New "Meaning of Life"

by ORION JONES

MIT physicist Jeremy England claims that life may not be so mysterious after all, despite the fact it is apparently derived from non-living matter. In a new paper, England explains how simple physical laws make complex life more likely than not. In other words, it would be more surprising to find no life in the universe than a buzzing place like planet Earth.

What does all matter—rocks, plants, animals, and humans—have in common? We all absorb and dissipate energy. While a rock absorbs a small amount of energy before releasing what it doesn't use back into the universe, life takes in more energy and releases less. This makes life better at redistributing energy, and the process of converting and dissipating energy is simply a fundamental characteristic of the universe.

According to England, the second law of thermodynamics gives life its meaning. The law states that entropy, i.e. decay, will continuously increase. Imagine a hot cup of coffee sitting at room temperature. Eventually, the cup of coffee will reach room temperature and stay there: its energy will have dissipated. Now imagine molecules swimming in a warm primordial ocean. England claims that matter will slowly but inevitably reorganize itself into forms that better dissipate the warm oceanic energy.

The strength of England's theory is that it provides an underlying physical basis for Darwin's theory of evolution and helps explain some evolutionary tendencies that evolution cannot. Adaptations that don't clearly benefit a species in terms of survivability can be explained thusly: "the reason that an organism shows characteristic X rather than Y may not be because X is more fit than Y, but because physical constraints make it easier for X to evolve than for Y to evolve."


Don't you really see the logical flaws in it?????

ok, well, let's see then:

Quote:
Now imagine molecules swimming in a warm primordial ocean. England claims that matter will slowly but inevitably reorganize itself into forms that better dissipate the warm oceanic energy.


imagine? claims??

Quote:
"the reason that an organism shows characteristic X rather than Y may not be because X is more fit than Y, but because physical constraints make it easier for X to evolve than for Y to evolve."


May not be???????

That is NO PROOF, mate.

You have to do better then that!


And of course, a LOT is left out! It is like saying that a real painter, making a beautifull painting is only putting colors on a canvas.


Th whole thing you wrote is STUPID!


I see you hopelessly clinging to a lot of nonsense.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Dec, 2014 03:49 am
Something else I found pretty interesting, since we're talking about the whole universe and all: http://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/afterlife/science-life-after-death.htm?mkcpgn=fb6&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=hswaccount

Quote:
Has science explained life after death?
by Josh Clark


...As many as 18 percent of people brought back from death after a heart attack said they'd had a NDE [source: Time]. While many religious adherents might not be surprised by these accounts, the idea that human consciousness and the body exist distinctly from each other flies in the face of science. A brain-dead person should not be able to form new memories -- he shouldn't have any consciousness at all, really. So how can anything but a metaphysical explanation cover NDEs?
A study from the University of Kentucky has quickly gained ground among scientists as possibly the best explanation for NDEs. Researchers there theorize that the mysterious phenomenon is really an instance of the sleep disorder rapid eye movement (REM) intrusion. In this disorder, a person's mind can wake up before his body, and hallucinations and the feeling of being physically detached from his body can occur.
The Kentucky researchers believe that NDEs are actually REM intrusions triggered in the brain by traumatic events like cardiac arrest. If this is true, then this means the experiences of some people following near-death are confusion from suddenly and unexpectedly entering a dream-like state.
This theory helps explain what has always been a tantalizing aspect of the mystery of NDEs: how people can experience sights and sounds after confirmed brain death. The area where REM intrusion is triggered is found in the brain stem -- the region that controls the most basic functions of the body -- and it can operate virtually independent from the higher brain. So even after the higher regions of the brain are dead, the brain stem can conceivably continue to function, and REM intrusion could still occur [source: BBC].
...


Makes me wonder if such stories may have had a hand in the origins of religion in our species.
 

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