14
   

How do you self-indentify in terms of ideology?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:06 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
A lot of people in this forum have argued that Obama is not a liberal,
and that may be the case, but he certainly is a progressive.


Interesting.

I perceive Obama as a conservative. . . .
Do u perceive Mao or Hitler or Stalin as a liberal, Beth ?





David
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:10 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

I'm a Socialist.


In a country where socialist policies are unsustainable.

But, I'm sure, you beg to differ.

We'll see.

When my kids were tots I asked them:

How should the world be run?

Everyone gets an equal share of the efforts of all

Everyone gets the results of their individual effort.

All three, in early years, responded without question that the former was preferable to the latter.

Now they are all young adults and they realize they were foolishly wrong.

I've been a damned good Dad.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:12 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:

ehBeth wrote:
I perceive Obama as a conservative.

In a nutshell, Obama is the second coming of Nixon. It's just that in the last 40 years, both American parties have moved so far to the right that Nixon's views are now considered Democratic.


Pure crap.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:12 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

It has long been said that Ronald Reagan himself would be run out of today's tea-party controlled Republican party as a RINO.



It has long been said by whom?
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:16 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
From a country where the poor still die from preventable diseases.

Quote:
I've been a damned good Dad.


No doubt Goebbels though the same.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

I do not identify as a liberal or a conservative—nor as a moderate between them. It is my opinion that I do not belong on the continuum that supposedly exists between those two identities…and if I do “identify” myself politically, I embrace the term “iconoclast” in its more generic meaning.

There are elements of (what is generally known as) the conservative agenda that I support…and there are elements of (what is generally known as ) the liberal agenda that I support. Mostly, I support (what is generally known as) a progressive agenda.

While I consider American conservativism a blight on the world…I acknowledge that it has a place on the political stage as “the loyal opposition.” I just think many of its adherents have trouble being that “loyal opposition”…they want to lead, and they are, in my opinion, singularly unprepared to so and unskilled at doing so.

Further I think the problems plaguing the political system right now have less to do with the vast chasm that exists between “liberal” and “conservatives”…than it does with the fact that so many at the extremes of the two sides refuse to “see” the other position in any reasonable light.

The politicians, in my opinion, are at loggerheads with one another because the general populace is at loggerheads with itself.

The intransigence of the people here in A2K illustrates this problem in all its glory.



Quote:
Mostly, I support (what is generally known as) a progressive agenda.


And what is that?


Exactly what it says.

Quote:
Quote:
There are elements of (what is generally known as) the conservative agenda that I support


And what is that?


Exactly what it says.


Quote:
Quote:
there are elements of (what is generally known as ) the liberal agenda that I support.


And what is that?


Exactly what it says.

Quote:
Quote:
While I consider American conservativism a blight on the world


How so?


By just considering it that. How do you consider things?


Quote:
(And BTW, do you really think this comment isn't suggestive of the dread label you deserve?)


Not sure of what the "dread label" is supposed to mean, but if it means "liberal"...that is a label that has been used by the most productive members of society in America...a label that has been used by people who have done the most good for this country.

It just happens that I am not a liberal.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 04:21 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I consider myself a lefto, but I'm not a marxist type, which to me means that I'm middle of the road re the rest of the world.

I think I called myself a progressive here once,
but I don't actually know what that word means, so forget it. Liberal is a pablum word to the rest of the world, so I'm not sure what that means as a word either. Let's say Obama is far to the right of me, but I knew that when I voted for him.

I have some elements of libertarian agreement, and the odd bit of conservative in me that shows up blinking from time to time.

So, I'm 5.


Tell that to ebeth.

If Obama is far to the right of you, than everthing you wrote before this comment is utterly nonsense.

I don't question your self-assesment, but I do question your assesment of Obama within its context.

BTW

Not being a Marxist doesn't necessarily make you "middle of the road."

This is illustrative of the modern American liberal/progressive.

I don't want to emulate Stalin or Mao and kill millions and therefore I am a centralist.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 05:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
In YOUR vocabulary, what is the distinction
between what u refer to as liberal
and
what u refer to as progressive ?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 05:13 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

In YOUR vocabulary, what is the distinction
between what u refer to as liberal
and
what u refer to as progressive ?


I do not deal with what a person means when he/she calls him/herself a liberal or a progressive.

I said that I support a progressive agenda.

A progressive agenda, in my book, is one that defends, strengthens, and expands much needed safety net programs; recognizes that vast wealth disparity is a danger to society; recognizes that WE are the government...and that the government has an indispensable role in orderly society; and for the most part is not adverse to facilitating the redistribution of wealth from the wealthiest to the least wealthy rather than (as is happening now) facilitating the redistribution of wealth in the opposite direction.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 05:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
progressive: one who is sure that the world is full of victims for them to save.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 06:09 pm
@izzythepush,
Wow, apparently there is no lowest level below which you will not sink.

I'm Goebbels?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Nov, 2013 11:06 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:
progressive: one who is sure that the world is full of victims for them to save.
Progress can be made
in any of 36O different directions; yes ?

not just in ONE assumed direction
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 12:26 am
@OmSigDAVID,
I have never met a self identified progressive who did not start fron " there are all of these people who need MY help!". the idea that they dont gave the right to run other peoples lives never occures to them.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 01:15 am
@hawkeye10,
Different people can PROGRESS toward radically different goals, yes ??
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 02:36 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
You're the one that likes to sink to levels. I thought this thread was about how people self-identify, not which ideology is inherently superior.

You couldn't resist attacking, and ridiculing those who do not think exactly the same as you. As for whether or not one is a good father, isn't that really for others to point out?

You should be trying to get your kids to think for themselves, which is not thinking exactly the same as you.

Goebbels did think he was a good father. I never called you Goebbels, but you do believe in killing the poor through neglect. That's not a million miles away from what he thought.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 09:23 am
@OmSigDAVID,
There are many more than 360 different directions.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 09:30 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Says a lot about liberals

Indeed.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 09:50 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
In a country where socialist policies are unsustainable.

I agree that Britain's current policies are unsustainable. But the makers of Britain's policies these days belong to coalition of conservatives and classical liberals (known in the US as libertarians.) If that's what you mean by "socialist", you're quite right to be so anti-socialistic. But it's not what any other speaker of English means by the word "socialist".
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 10:43 am
@Thomas,
The British Labour Party is still "Britain's democratic socialist party".
And I agree that they have moved to centre as did Germany's SPD. (The British Socialist Labour Party, btw, is very similar to the German Left ("Linke"), less influence, though.

The Fabian Society is affiliated to the Labour party but is editorially and organisationally independent .... which can be seen by the fact that it didn't move to the centre.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Nov, 2013 11:52 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
There are many more than 360 different directions.
Yes; there are up and down,
with diagonals thereunto appertaining.
0 Replies
 
 

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