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Does the first "that" here mean "so that" or "in order that"?

Forums: English, Esl, Grammar
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oristarA
 
Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2013 01:28 am
Context:

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their live that that nation might live.
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Type: Question • Score: 4 • Views: 515 • Replies: 9
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roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2013 01:55 am
@oristarA,
That is the meaning of the second that.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2013 02:09 am
@roger,
roger wrote:

That is the meaning of the second that.

Thanks.
But isn't the first that more like it:

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their live so that that nation might live.
izzythepush
  Selected Answer
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2013 08:37 am
@oristarA,
I'm going to have to disagree with Roger here. You're right.
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roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 28 Oct, 2013 02:02 pm
@oristarA,

Quote:
We have come to dedicate a portion of that (this is the first "that".) field as a final resting place for those who here gave their live so that (this is the second "that") that nation might live.


Someone(s) around here are either confused, or can't count.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2013 10:08 am
@roger,
roger wrote:


Quote:
We have come to dedicate a portion of that (this is the first "that".) field as a final resting place for those who here gave their live so that (this is the second "that") that nation might live.


Someone(s) around here are either confused, or can't count.


Well, we've understood now that Roger used to count backwards. Very Happy
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2013 10:37 am
@roger,
Just put the so in front of each that, to see which makes sense.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their live(s) (so) that that nation might live.

We have come to dedicate a portion of that field as a final resting place for those who here gave their live(s) that (so) that nation might live.

The first example works, the second doesn't.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2013 11:49 am
@oristarA,
Count from whichever direction you wish. The first that doesn't mean that.
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InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2013 12:13 pm
@oristarA,
Yeah, I thought ori was refering to the very first "that," but then I read further and noticed that he highlighted the second "that," and realized that he was talking about the series "that that."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Oct, 2013 01:33 pm
@InfraBlue,
I think it was obvious Ori was talking about the phrase that that, he did highlight it in bold. He just wanted to know if he was right or not. He was.
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