morality, drugs, existence

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Mystics, as I understand them, do not think when they want to appreciate their existence; they look, or better said, they see. Their engagement with their nature is prereflective. But most of the time they think like everyone else in order to do the practical work of living.

i would disagree. in my culture the word 'mystic' is generally meant as enlightened masters. therefore, a mystic does not 'want to appreciate their existence', although it may happen by itself. i don't know what you mean by prereflective engagement with nature, but again, the idea of reflection or thought over anything has no meaning for a mystic.

when you say they usually 'think like everyone else' to do practical work of living, i would again disagree. i would say they may appear to do any work and live any kind of life, but inwardly, there is no identity with thought. therefore, thought slowly stops happening, because thoughts only appear due to belief in them.

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By the way, this positive value for "the natural" amuses me. I see so many people insisting that if something is "natural" (expecially food) it is good or safe. I recall someone saying that he was going to prepare a food of natural ingredients. He went into the forst to gather "natural" vegetables, including toadstools.

again, the very word 'natural' tends to mean unaltered by humans. but the idea that humans alteration destroys naturality is false, in my opinion. every atom in the universe is natural. simple.

there is no 'you' or 'yourself' or 'me' or 'myself' in the 'great nothingness'. there is simply the entirety of existence, which realises that it has nothing else to compare itself into, and therefore stops defining itself as 'existent', because the dual idea of something 'else' drops away.

And this, CM...does it sound profound and stupid to you, CM...or just stupid.

As Ican used to say:

"Gotta be something about the air of the sub-continent that does this to people."

What "universe"...who are these "humans?"

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there is no 'you' or 'yourself' or 'me' or 'myself' in the 'great nothingness'. there is simply the entirety of existence, which realises that it has nothing else to compare itself into, and therefore stops defining itself as 'existent', because the dual idea of something 'else' drops away.

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And this, CM...does it sound profound and stupid to you, CM...or just stupid.

in relation to describing my words, the words profound and stupid came from you, not me. to me, that quote doesn't 'sound' any way, because i am not interpreting it. it came out of me as a direct response to somebody's comment. if i read it over, it sounds simply logically true. if 'what is is', as you say, then all that is..is just everything. i am just not stopping there, i am looking further. there is no reason to define it as 'everything' as such. it is, but it has no comparison, no possibility of another thing existing. i don't think that is profound, i think that is basic logic.

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As Ican used to say:

"Gotta be something about the air of the sub-continent that does this to people."

haha, you think you can offend me with pitiful racism, but unfortunately i don't identify with any race. yes all indians are crazy, in your opinion, congrats.

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What "universe"...who are these "humans?"

if you don't understand the words 'universe' and 'humans', i cannot help you.
if you think that anything i have previously said contradicts the appearance of 'universe' and 'humans', i cannot help you, other than to tell you that it does not.

but in an absolute sense, yes, i agree with you. what universe, and who are these humans? humans defined both the words, that is all.

I have read it over also...and although it sound "logically true" to you...it sounds like it is pontificating to me.

In other words it sounds as logically true as the declaration that the Virgin Mary was assumed bodily into Heaven.

Holy moley...are you actually saying that you are from the sub-continent?

If you are, that would help explain some things that have been troubling me about your presentations.

In any case, I did not present that sentence as a racial slur or to suggest that people from India are crazy.

If you honestly took it that way, I apologize...completely and unconditionally.

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I have read it over also...and although it sound "logically true" to you...it sounds like it is pontificating to me.

why would i care what you think, others are understanding and have expressed that.

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In other words it sounds as logically true as the declaration that the Virgin Mary was assumed bodily into Heaven.

i don't know or care about any christian beliefs, nor hindu beliefs because non duality is not a belief.

i said it was logically true because all i said was: there is no me or you in nothingness. that is logically true, anybody would accept.

the idea that 'nothingness is everything' and explains the entirety of existence is not so simple and easy to prove,

it is in fact impossible to prove with concepts, but it is an inevitable final realisation in all human consciousness.

I understand the words "universe" and "humans"...but since you seem to be indicating that neither exist...there is the appearance of contradiction.

I do not expect you to acknowledge that, but that is just the way things are.

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Holy moley...are you actually saying that you are from the sub-continent?

i actually never said that, i simply said that such a blanket statement about subcontinental people is pure racism.

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If you are, that would help explain some things that have been troubling me about your presentations.

that again, is pure racism.

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In any case, I did not present that sentence as a racial slur or to suggest that people from India are crazy.

you are just plain stupid if you think that is not the implication of that statement. 'the air of the subcontinent 'does this to people''. what does it 'do to them'? make them great, sane, logical people? ok cool.

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If you honestly took it that way, I apologize...completely and unconditionally.

i don't care for your pitiful apology, ill-founded and insincere, still holding the idea that indians overall cannot 'present english well' and the air around them 'does something to them'. who knows what? probably something great, in your opinion.

I have no idea...but you obviously do care, since you are discussing it with me. I certainly care what you think...which is why I am discussing it with you.

non duality is not a belief.

Yeah...like a goose is not a bird!

Yup...but you also have asserted that there "is" "nothingness." And that is sorta like the assertion of the Virgin Mary being assumed bodily into Heaven...although even less logical.

the idea that 'nothingness is everything' and explains the entirety of existence is not so simple and easy to prove,

Ya think???

It seems to me to be just about impossible to prove...and you have done a stellar job of not "proving" it. So why do you continue to assert it as though you KNOW it is so?

it is in fact impossible to prove with concepts, but it is an inevitable final realisation in all human consciousness.

Yeah...like the assumption of the Virgin Mary into Heaven is!!

Yeah...but you said that what I said was an attempt to insult you. That would not make much sense (not that you ever make sense)...if you were not Indian.

If you are, that would help explain some things that have been troubling me about your presentations.

that again, is pure racism.

Really. How so?

My, my...you do seem to be insulted. Extreme empathy...or you are from the sub-continent.

In any case, I am not stupid...plain or otherwise. By now you should know that.

Nice way to deal with an apology, CM. You are a class act...yes you are!

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I have no idea...but you obviously do care, since you are discussing it with me. I certainly care what you think...which is why I am discussing it with you.

i am discussing anything with anyone, because i don't care about anything. what i personally think about the discussions varies, yours are just deadened, boring, easy responses to your repetitive, similar arguments based on simple paradoxes and contradictions.

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non duality is not a belief.

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Yeah...like a goose is not a bird!

no, like 'a lack of birds is not a bird' is the correct analogy. non duality is a lack of beliefs, including the belief that 'non duality is the best pathway in life'. that may be the hardest belief to kick away, after understanding the concept of non duality, but it still must go eventually.

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Yup...but you also have asserted that there "is" "nothingness." And that is sorta like the assertion of the Virgin Mary being assumed bodily into Heaven...although even less logical.

wrong. the logic of your virgin mary story i have no idea, nor do i care. here is the logic of nothingness:
right now, in your experience, something exists. what is it? you can call it your consciousness. so that is the basis by which you say 'somethingness' definitely exists, and nothingness cannot exist.

but that same consciousness is completely absent in deep sleep. so, it becomes nothingness, by itself. so that is a LOGICALLY deduced example of nothingness, based on how we define 'somethingness' in the first place. of course, the consciousness keeps reappearing every morning, (or afternoon depending on lifestyle), but that is not proof of its absolute existence. it is simply proof that there is a certain medium in which waking and sleep states keep alternating. some of the sleep states are entirely devoid of any consciousness, and therefore do constitute a 'nothingness' experience.

now, if you say 'somethingness' is matter, not consciousness, then we can also easily conceptualise the absence of matter, ie pure space. all physics points to this idea as the basis for all matter, but some pseudo scientists like fil will claim that empty space does not exist, energy fields permeate all of space. even if this is true, where are the energy fields existing? in some more subtle space which contains them. no matter how deep we go into particles or energy fields, the potential for an emptier, deeper space will always exist. because nothingness is infinite.

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the idea that 'nothingness is everything' and explains the entirety of existence is not so simple and easy to prove,

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Ya think???

It seems to me to be just about impossible to prove...and you have done a stellar job of not "proving" it. So why do you continue to assert it as though you KNOW it is so?

i like your description, that i have 'not proven' it. that is the only way it can paradoxically be proven.

i assert it as though i know it is so, primarily because you interpret it that way, but secondarily because of course i do FEEL that i know it is so. however, i am aware of the limited nature of the feeling and belief in supposed 'knowledge'. my opinion on knowledge would be that it does not exist absolutely, only relatively, just like all other concepts.

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it is in fact impossible to prove with concepts, but it is an inevitable final realisation in all human consciousness.

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Yeah...like the assumption of the Virgin Mary into Heaven is!!

you will have to explain that **** to me to get me to comment further on it. but i have already explained the logic of nothingness, and can go on FOREVER with it, no matter how long you argue and provide illustrations of how 'stupid' it sounds to you, blah blah. nothing will stop me. keep trying.

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Yeah...but you said that what I said was an attempt to insult you. That would not make much sense (not that you ever make sense)...if you were not Indian.

yes, it still possibly makes sense if i am not indian. it means that i assumed you think i am indian, because of my nickname and presentation of indian philosophies. therefore i claimed that i do not identify with any race, if you think i am identifying with the indian race.

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If you are, that would help explain some things that have been troubling me about your presentations.

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that again, is pure racism.

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Really. How so?

it implies the idea that indians generally present things in a troubling way. racism.

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My, my...you do seem to be insulted. Extreme empathy...or you are from the sub-continent.

In any case, I am not stupid...plain or otherwise. By now you should know that.

yes, racism insults me, whoever it is from or to. you are quite stupid, in my opinion. i would concede that you have a good way of appearing calm and collected, i think this makes you feel superior. trying to point out that i am too emotional, too insulted, too religious, too grandiose, this or that. but all those things came from you.

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Nice way to deal with an apology, CM. You are a class act...yes you are!

if you want, i can say i accept your apology. i was only being more honest, and letting you know i see more racism in your supposed apology about racism.

You are getting all worked up, CM.

Try to calm down.

Non duality IS a belief. Actually...non duality is a blind guess about REALITY...which is a "belief."

A class act!!!

A bit out of control, though.

already explained that everything is out of control. you are simply too naive to understand the meaning of this, still believing you have some sort of control over your consciousness.

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You are getting all worked up, CM.

Try to calm down.

not worth responding to..already explained to you how emotions, like all conscious phenomena, are involuntary.

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Non duality IS a belief. Actually...non duality is a blind guess about REALITY...which is a "belief."

its cute that you think i will be irritated by you just plainly opposing my views with no evidence, just simple verbal declarations that i am wrong. hahaha. at least in old age learn how to argue. if you believe non-duality is a belief system, then you miss the point of it like most of the world.