8
   

morality, drugs, existence

 
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 09:50 am
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
OF COURSE NOT YOU DUMB ****. because every single sentence is comprised of words and every single word is ultimately an empty concept. it is you who simply does not perceive the actual conceptual meanings of words like true, false, ultimate, absolute, reality etc.

I perceive these meanings very well, better than you do, dumb ****... I'm not the one unable to see that they are MEANINGFUL. You are.

But you still don't get the point. Why are you talking, if words are meaningless? Why not just shut the **** up?

Quote:
i have proven non duality to the maximum extent possible within appearing duality

You have never 'proven' anything, let alone 'non-duality'. With all this meaningless bla-bla-bla of yours, you've never made your case. Which I guess is to be expected, if words are meaningless for you... You can't explain anything with meaningless words.
IRFRANK
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Jan, 2014 10:04 am
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
how to eliminate idiots like frank is by people actually interested in the CONTENT of this discussion to contribute.

I don't share your opinion of Frank, but your point is well taken. We all contribute to the mundane argument train.
0 Replies
 
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Wed 15 Jan, 2014 10:19 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I perceive these meanings very well, better than you do, dumb ****... I'm not the one unable to see that they are MEANINGFUL. You are.

ok. you say you can see meaning in life/reality/truth. and i can't.

if you cannot see the subjectivity of your own claim, then you are extremely naive. any meaning is subjective, made of words and opinions.

i am not at all saying that words are not meaningful, within the limited scope of the word meaning. but the word meaning itself can only point to a mind made concept.

Quote:
But you still don't get the point. Why are you talking, if words are meaningless? Why not just shut the **** up?

what point? what point are you making? that everything is exactly as you see it and think it to be. nothing beyond this is possible. this is the most naive and idiotic belief system possible in a human.

i am talking because words are meaningless, and despite this, the limited meaning is the eternal play of eternal consciousness. i would shut the **** up only when dumb fucks like you and frank stop pestering me on my own thread.

Quote:
You have never 'proven' anything, let alone 'non-duality'. With all this meaningless bla-bla-bla of yours, you've never made your case. Which I guess is to be expected, if words are meaningless for you... You can't explain anything with meaningless words.

do you think it takes a lot of intelligence to write what you just did? it all amounts to this basically: 'no i disagree with you, you are wrong, because i think so.'

words are meaningless only at the ultimate level, but at the limited level of meanings my words convey a great deal of meaning. you can easily explain things with meaningless words, because everything is meaningless ultimately. the meaningless words serve only one function - to convey the limited meanings which are ultimately meaningless.

but yes, i know that this is all far too complex for your dumbfuck mind, so enjoy your life of self-deceipt where you tell yourself you know all about existence/reality/truth. hahahahaha dumb **** doesn't quite describe your dumbfuckitude.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jan, 2014 06:52 am
@carnaticmystery,
I was pondering what you have said carnie and I got wondering whether a figment of the imagination is a figment of the imagination.

Have you a view?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jan, 2014 09:05 am
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
any meaning is subjective

Duh... What else is new? Water is humid?

Quote:
hahahahaha dumb **** doesn't quite describe your dumbfuckitude.

That's because you lack imagination... and comprehension skills too. Even though I kept writing for dummies all along, you still couldn't understand my very very simple point. You kept running off the cliff all the time. Guess you like the sound of your own voice a bit too much, for a nihilist.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2014 09:39 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
I was pondering what you have said carnie and I got wondering whether a figment of the imagination is a figment of the imagination.

Have you a view?

a figment of the imagination is of course a figment of the imagination. it is the same phrase. it is like asking if a tree is a tree. now, i do see the deeper question in your question, but first i wanted to point out the obvious simplicity of it, which ultimately answers the deeper question also.

the deeper question, i assume, is if the very concept of imagination vs reality is relevant, or whether both imagination and reality come from a deeper 'imagination'. i would agree with this, as this deeper imagination is synonymous with my use of the words nonduality, god, universe, reality, truth, etc.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Jan, 2014 09:42 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
any meaning is subjective


Quote:
Duh... What else is new? Water is humid?


no, water is not and can never be humid, the term applies to air.

Quote:
Quote:
hahahahaha dumb **** doesn't quite describe your dumbfuckitude.


Quote:
That's because you lack imagination... and comprehension skills too. Even though I kept writing for dummies all along, you still couldn't understand my very very simple point. You kept running off the cliff all the time. Guess you like the sound of your own voice a bit too much, for a nihilist.

i understood many, many simple and also feeble points of yours. happy to be running of cliffs in your opinion. i never said i am a nihilist.

if you want to again try and make me understand your very very simple point for dummies, then go ahead. i understand all your points, you are simply rebelling against the idea of nonduality, just like frank, because it threatens your individuality.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 05:52 am
@carnaticmystery,
I was suggesting that there is an infinite regress operating.

Are you into D.M.Armstrong's A Materialist Theory of Mind?
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 07:22 am
@carnaticmystery,
My main point is that your theory is self contradictory. If truth and all concepts are meaningless, then non-duality cannot be true. As simple as that. You prove yourself wrong every time you use a word.
carnaticmystery
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 08:23 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
My main point is that your theory is self contradictory. If truth and all concepts are meaningless, then non-duality cannot be true. As simple as that. You prove yourself wrong every time you use a word.

ok. now let me disprove your main point.

i never claim non duality to be true at any ultimate level. i am only claiming it true within the possible meaning of true, which is limited. truth and all concepts are only meaningless at the ultimate level, which is limitless and includes all limited truths and concepts, as well as all falsehoods and all potentiality.

now, about me proving myself wrong. yes, probably many times, because i am not coming from any particular stance, other than non duality, which is not a stance at all. therefore, i have nothing to prove myself right about, non duality is self evident and can never be disproven.

but keep trying lol your attempts are better than frank's, admittedly.

carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 08:28 am
@spendius,
Quote:
I was suggesting that there is an infinite regress operating.

yes, there is an infinite regress operating, synonymous with the deeper imagination i previously talked about, which was synonymous with all those other words. lol.

Quote:
Are you into D.M.Armstrong's A Materialist Theory of Mind?

nope, never heard of it. but i do think that non duality resolves the spirituality vs materialism duality.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 08:54 am
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
the deeper imagination


But isn't that a figment of your imagination? "Deeper" meaning your imagination is special and ours are all shallow.

Go win the Masters eh. These sophistries don't prove your excellence carnie. They are all old hat. They've been flogged to death by people who refuse/d economic activity as the mark of the slave.
carnaticmystery
 
  2  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 09:15 am
@spendius,
Quote:
But isn't that a figment of your imagination? "Deeper" meaning your imagination is special and ours are all shallow.

wow not at all. yes everything can be considered a figment of imagination if you want. i never said mine is special and yours is shallow, i am saying the deeper, infinite regression you speak of exists for everyone equally and is synonymous with all the other words i said.

Quote:
Go win the Masters eh. These sophistries don't prove your excellence carnie. They are all old hat. They've been flogged to death by people who refuse/d economic activity as the mark of the slave.

dunno what you mean. i don't consider anyone a master, or everybody is a master. i am not trying to prove any excellence other than universal excellence. i have nothing against economic activity or slavery, both have happened in this universe. i can say they are bad and good in different ways, it doesn't matter ultimately.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 09:34 am
@carnaticmystery,
Non-duality cannot be EXPRESSED by words or any other symbol, because signs imply the duality of signifier & signified. A word or concept is dual, inherently, joining a sound or drawing to a meaning, a meaning which points to something out there. Therefore, as soon as you try to say something, you are bound to accept duality as an axiom.

The only way you can remain faithful to your suicidal philosophy is by staying silent at all times. You're attracted by this philosophical suicide, but are too much of a coward to pull the trigger...

Anyway, as of now, I pull your trigger. Boom, you're dead.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 09:49 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
Non-duality cannot be EXPRESSED by words or any other symbol, because signs imply the duality of signifier & signified. A word or concept is dual, inherently, joining a sound or drawing to a meaning, a meaning which points to something out there.

Therefore, as soon as you try to say something, you are bound to accept duality as an axiom.


agree 100%. unfortunately, i am not trying to say anything, and the idea of trying to say anything is always ultimately an illusion. words come from thought which comes from infinite, universal mind which is capable of appearing limited to individuality.
Quote:
The only way you can remain faithful to your suicidal philosophy is by staying silent at all times. You're attracted by this philosophical suicide, but are too much of a coward to pull the trigger...

completely wrong. my philosophy is suicidal to the individual mind only, and no trigger needs to be pulled to go beyond it. there is no need to remain silent, because if there is no identification with the words, there is no attempt for anything, then there is no problem with words.

Quote:
Anyway, as of now, I pull your trigger. Boom, you're dead.

ok? except that it is highly likely you will end up reading this response. then you will just seem cowardly yourself for not responding. so have fun with that.

another funny thing i'd like to point out. it is obvious i started this thread as a discussion on reality. that itself is a seeking of help of some sorts, like i did not understand reality completely myself, so i wanted more perspectives to understand it better. everything i said about non duality was just speculation, i simply presented the arguments and did not claim them as my own, and gave the name of the author whom i derive most of what i say from (nisargadatta maharaj).

i can say everyone on this board is like a spiritual guru to me in some way, even frank and olivier, because they contribute to more and more apparent truths becoming exposed, which continuously contributes to the infinite regression of truths and imagination that spendius is talking about.

what is funny about all this is how frank is always telling me that i am spreading some sort of religion. however, the way i see it, you are the ones turning what i say into a religion, so i automatically need to dissect it more and more. i myself have never looked into non duality this deeply before. so thank you all for assisting me in the never ending intellectual journey into finding out the ultimate truth.

i would repeat that i have never claimed to know any ultimate truth other than the inference that there could be no ultimate truth, as a possible explanation for everything.

the responses have been largely supportive, with a few strong opposers like frank and olivier. so overall this has and will continue to be a very productive discussion. thank you all.

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 09:54 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

another funny thing i'd like to point out. it is obvious i started this thread as a discussion on reality. that itself is a seeking of help of some sorts, like i did not understand reality completely myself, so i wanted more perspectives to understand it better. everything i said about non duality was just speculation, i simply presented the arguments and did not claim them as my own, and gave the name of the author whom i derive most of what i say from (nisargadatta maharaj).



Nonsense...and we have the words here to show it is nonsense.

You did not present your material as speculation...you presented it mostly as fact...right from the first paragraph. And you presented it as though you were telling us what YOU knew...rather than as the speculations of someone else.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 09:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You did not present your material as speculation...you presented it mostly as fact...right from the first paragraph. And you presented it as though you were telling us what YOU knew...rather than as the speculations of someone else.

i never felt the need to initially state that everything is speculation. i already said, it was an open ended discussion on reality for my own benefit and spiritual growth if you like. of course i will say whatever i think i KNOW. but as soon as anyone questioned where its from, i quoted where. just **** off with your petty arguments lol.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 10:03 am
@carnaticmystery,
Quote:
so i wanted more perspectives to understand it better


"It's no go the Yogi-Man, it's no go Blavatsky,
All we want is a bank balance and a bit of skirt in a taxi."

Louis MacNeice.

Is that any good?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 20 Jan, 2014 10:22 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
You did not present your material as speculation...you presented it mostly as fact...right from the first paragraph. And you presented it as though you were telling us what YOU knew...rather than as the speculations of someone else.

i never felt the need to initially state that everything is speculation. i already said, it was an open ended discussion on reality for my own benefit and spiritual growth if you like. of course i will say whatever i think i KNOW. but as soon as anyone questioned where its from, i quoted where. just **** off with your petty arguments lol.



You did nothing of the sort, CM. Here is your first post in its entirety:

the pathway of non duality leads to an eternal abyss of nothingness, in which anything goes, and ideas such as morality can become very skewed, if not completely vanish. with the absence of any morality, drug use can only become more common. is there any need to address issues such as heavy drug use? does existence have any meaning? the emptiness of non duality appears to prove categorically that the answer is no.

You'd be much better off sticking with the truth while digging, CM!
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Jan, 2014 12:49 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You did nothing of the sort, CM. Here is your first post in its entirety:

the pathway of non duality leads to an eternal abyss of nothingness, in which anything goes, and ideas such as morality can become very skewed, if not completely vanish. with the absence of any morality, drug use can only become more common. is there any need to address issues such as heavy drug use? does existence have any meaning? the emptiness of non duality appears to prove categorically that the answer is no.

You'd be much better off sticking with the truth while digging, CM!

um what exactly did you prove by quoting me? except exactly what i said:

Quote:
i never felt the need to initially state that everything is speculation. i already said, it was an open ended discussion on reality for my own benefit and spiritual growth if you like. of course i will say whatever i think i KNOW. but as soon as anyone questioned where its from, i quoted where.


i didn't openly state anything was speculation. i stated my own opinion categorically. but there were a lot of questions, indicating that i wanted a discussion.

lol, let me repeat: **** off with your petty arguments.
 

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